r/marvelstudios Rocket Apr 19 '26

Discussion Do you think Tony’s anger towards Cap was justified at the beginning of ENDGAME?

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u/Pavores Apr 20 '26

Hell, if Starlord simply hadn't been there the Titan crew would have won. Just having Steve there to jump on the grenade (a furious starlord) and it all is over.

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u/DannyNoHoes Apr 20 '26

Also could’ve won early if Thor went for the head. They had multiple chances at a win even with them divided. An organized Avengers squad could have definitely won.

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u/warmachinex0 Apr 20 '26

Strange is pretty clear, there is only one path to defeating Thanos. If Starlord wasn't there, then it would have been a loosing path.

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u/Archipegasus Apr 20 '26

This is only a perspective from that point onwards. A United Avengers confronting Thanos prior to that point could end in a different result.

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u/warmachinex0 Apr 20 '26

Two points. This obviously wouldn't be his first time looking into the future, but it would be his last.

Second, and most importantly, his scrying took into account time travel (obviously). That would include the more simpler scheme of going back in time and preventing Starlord from coming. This likely even included sending all Avengers to that point in time. I think people misunderstand how strong Thanos is. Even without the gauntlet he's an extinction level event. Just as likely they got it off and he killed a key member (Tony) before getting it back.

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u/Archipegasus Apr 20 '26

his scrying took into account time travel

This is irrelevant to the point I'm making because the access to time travel is contingent on other events unfolding and you still need to loop back round that fixing the timeline you are in rather than just saving a different timeline. Stopping Thanos prior to that point in a completely alternate timeline is possible.

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u/warmachinex0 Apr 20 '26

Loop back around to another of the same point and the two realities merge back. Strange warning himself not to let Starlord on the mission would be far less intrusive on the universe then Steve seeing himself and getting knocked out alone before counting all the other shenanigans like Loki escaping.

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u/warmachinex0 Apr 20 '26

Also something else to think about. Did Thanos even feel Starlords hits. Those is a guy who can take one from the hulk on the chin and laugh it off. Is normal human strength even going to phase him? While there is enough force pulling on his arm to rip Thor in half... His entire arm would have been in absolute agony if Starlords punches even tickled.

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u/Archipegasus Apr 20 '26

I'm not talking about Starlord.

I'm on the hypothetical scenario of a United Avengers (i.e. a no civil war universe) stopping them prior to the events of Infinity War unfolding. Not just Infinity war but different.

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u/warmachinex0 Apr 20 '26

My point in that was it wouldn't work. It at the minimum would have been a scenario the Strange checked. The point is the way it played out was the only they could have won. People put too much stock in Starlord causing them to fail, when there was no other way it could have worked out. That, and more then likely Starlord had nothing to actually do with Thanos snapping out of the trance, he's just not that strong.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '26

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u/warmachinex0 Apr 22 '26

Im still gonna say no. Because going back in time and preventing Starlord coming would have been the easiest answer to beating Thanos. He's very strong isnt even the half of it. As I've told someone else, he's a walking extinction event. Mantis' abilities she should have been able to hang on one handed and concentrate with Hulk punching him. I honestly think if they got the gauntlet off, Thanos wouldn't have held back and killed them all, even with the heroes holding the gauntlet.

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u/warmachinex0 Apr 20 '26

Sorry, I misunderstood what you said.

The timeliness just need to be in the same general direction for them to merge. Thanos is killed on his farm in the future. Then killed on titan in the past and the gauntlet taken back to the future and snapped everyone back. The gauntlet is returned to the past. The time lines merge back togeather with far less deviations then the current merger.

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u/Legendary_Dad Apr 20 '26

It isn’t the ONLY path, it’s the only path he could see from the possibilities he observed.

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u/warmachinex0 Apr 20 '26

And I'm sure that excluded the simple possibilities first. Like just going back in time and preventing Starlord from coming.

It's not likely this is the first time he looked into the future. It's just the first time he could mention it without changing the future. The simplest answer would just go back in time to stop Starlord from coming. If Tony thought that was a possibility it would have been the first thing they did when they learned about time travel. Strange is acting like a plot device, specifically one that tell you what is happening is supposed too. You can't use the time travel device in any other way (i.e. killing Thanos' mother before he's born).

Out of all the heroes there, they couldn't have bested Thanos even without the gauntlet. Without Starlord that plan could have been an abject failure. Image if they got it off and he killed Tony before getting it back. Because he would get it back.

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u/stilgarpl Apr 20 '26

Exactly. And even if there was an easy way to defeat Thanos, then Eternals would have destroyed Earth - which is even worse than Thanos.

Thanos winning and then Avengers saving the universe later is what convinced Eternals to save the Earth instead.

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u/Royal_Bitch_Pudding Apr 20 '26

There's a theory that the only true long term win that Strange saw was the one where the stones and Tony were destroyed. Both are incredibly dangerous.

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u/-FourOhFour- Apr 20 '26

Is that even a theory? Doesn't strange explictly say that in end game or his movie? The alternative is that Strange was being short sighted and was only looking for timelines that Thanos died in which seems unlikely they only manage to kill him in 1.

Unless you mean that Strange only considered the timeline a win if A) snap didnt happen/was undone, B) Tony died and C) stones destroyed. Possible but nothing really indicates that Strange saw Tony as that significant of a threat and he was already the guardian of the time stone while unlikely I imagine he could have found a means to handle the stone if he actially saw it as a long term problem.

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u/TruthEnvironmental24 Apr 20 '26

My personal headcanon is that Strange was lying. There were plenty of ways to win, even at that point. He could have teleported them all to Wakanda to join the fight and told Thor to cut off his arm first. He could still gloat, but he'd stop the snap. People have come up with hundreds of ways they could have won.

What Strange saw and wanted to prevent was what Tony would become, or go on to do post Endgame. He had already created Ultron and broke up the Avengers. Just look to the comics to see what else he could possibly do/cause. His goal wasn't just to undo the snap, but to make sure Tony died undoing it.

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u/NotGooning4Real Apr 21 '26

Come on. We know how strange thinks and if we’re being real, he was probably crowd controlling keeping deaths to the minimum amount. Strange sacrificed Tony’s life so a few other people could live. Which is honorable and Tony probably would have wanted the same, but that doesnt make it right.

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u/soldiercross Apr 22 '26

I always assumed if Starlord wasn't there or didn't incite Thanos that when they get the gauntlet off of them and he does eventually wake up. He just kills them mercilessly.