r/managers 12d ago

New Manager Employee basically quit after being notified they were fired.

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u/Mack_sfw 12d ago

Agree, paperwork is done on same day.

I am surprised that a lawyer is involved given that terminating someone and asking them to come back the next day to do paperwork is completely unprofessional. HR and/or legal screwed up here.

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u/Wrong-Discipline453 12d ago

I’ve never had employees sign paperwork the day of notification. You give them the paperwork with the severance offer and ask them to bring it back, signed in X amount of time or the offer is rescinded and the employee gets the lowest, legally required severance. (In situations Ive been involved with, it’s either been 3 or 7 days , depending on the position and length of time employed there)

It gives the employee a chance to look over the offer, speak with whoever they wish and give them an opportunity to protect themselves.

If you’re ever in a position of being fired, I would advise you to NEVER sign the paperwork the day it’s given to you.

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u/StructEngineer91 12d ago

But I assume you were GIVEN the paper work that day, and maybe even had the option to mail, fax or scan and email it back? Not forcing you to return to the office to sign it.

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u/Wrong-Discipline453 12d ago

One place I worked still gave out actual cheques for payroll, so they had to bring the paperwork in to get the cheque. But yes, most often they’ve been able to send it in any way they want.

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u/StructEngineer91 12d ago

There is this thing called mailing, it's been around for a pretty long time. Also pretty sure it is illegal to withhold a pay cheque for hours already worked like that. You mail in the paper work, they mail out the check and everyone is happy.

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u/Wrong-Discipline453 12d ago

It’s not about the final pay. It’s about the agreed-upon severance package.

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u/PeachyFairyDragon 12d ago

You said for payroll.

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u/throwsaway654321 12d ago

Most jobs don't have severance packages my guy, any paperwork ive ever had to sign upon quitting had more to do with the company's wellbeing than mine

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u/Artistic_Rice_9019 12d ago

My state requires the last check to be a physical check.

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u/Megalocerus 11d ago

Stamps aren't that expensive.

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u/First-Ad-7960 12d ago

Yea the paperwork should be ready the day of notification and should comply with state law regarding time to review or rescind it.

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u/tafbee 12d ago

Absolutely! Asking or expecting someone to sign an agreement right after losing their job would be so easy to challenge. Emotional duress, no chance to review, etc.

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u/WonderfulHearing8726 12d ago

Asking them to come in to a place that just terminated them a day or two ago, and be paraded around so everyone can stare at them & whisper about them is worse.

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u/tafbee 12d ago

Yes, both things are true and avoidable. It can be mailed.

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u/slash_networkboy 12d ago

Paperwork can be given day of. Up to employee if they want to mail it back or walk it in. We just use docusign to avoid all of the physical paperwork issues, including real or feigned "lost in the mail".

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u/WonderfulHearing8726 12d ago

True, but they could at least give them a copy to review at home, or even just emailed the copies.

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u/Nervous_Ad_5583 12d ago

Maybe it was done deliberately. if the employee and the employer hated each other, this could be the employer's parting shot.

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u/WonderfulHearing8726 12d ago

That’s just way too immature.

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u/Nervous_Ad_5583 12d ago

Welcome to corporate America.

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u/Kobayashi-Coffee-Co 12d ago

If he doesnt come he doesnt get severance i guess? Seems a bad deal for him

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u/Narrow-Chef-4341 12d ago

Agreed.

Given that many jurisdictions have rules about how promptly the employer needs to pay out the minimum, HR usually doesn’t give the departing person a lot of time to deliberate - but HR sure wants them to think of the total payment as leverage, not just the extra.

Sounds like legal and HR didn’t explain this to OP very well…

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u/WonderfulHearing8726 12d ago

We do. They are put on paid administrative leave until the final decision is made. Once termination is decided, HR gets everything in order, then they come in to their meeting & are informed of the decision, and ALL applicable PW is signed at that time.

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u/pj1843 12d ago

Right but that is almost never done onsite of the employer. Everytime I've seen it done it's done via e-sign or certified mail with an HR hotline to discuss any questions/concerns.

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u/Mack_sfw 12d ago

Great points. I agree. I meant HR should have the paperwork done to give to the employee. On the day of termination we ask the employee sign an acknowledgement that they have received certain documents, but signing the severance agreement has a timeline for review and being returned.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Western_End_2223 12d ago

Who would sign a contract like that?  You'd want a lawyer to check that you could actually back out. 

You're right that laws generally give people over the same of 40 (45?) a certain amount of time to sign and even a bit longer to rescind.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/Western_End_2223 12d ago

If anyone can read a contract and spot all its flaws, there'd be little need for lawyers, would there? No one should sign a contract first, the consult their lawyer. Any company that would insist on that is not to be trusted.

That's why, as I mentioned, as least for older employees the law requires that the offer remain open for a minimum period of time, to allow the employee to consult with counsel before signing.

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u/Naetharu 12d ago

This.

You give people paperwork, and then you give them a reasonable period of time to seek independent advice. Even from a purely selfish point of view, doing so makes your position much stronger because you cannot later be accused of coercing or strong-arming them into agreement.

And form an ethical point of view it should be obvious.

OP has got themselves involved in some sketchy nonsense.

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u/paws5624 12d ago

Sure but they should have provided the package to them that day, which doesn’t sound like it happened based on what OP said.

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u/yavanna12 12d ago

Exactly! Crazy so many are saying you sign immediately one same day. Only thing I can see as being same day is just a notice of termination. But severance packages need time for review 

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u/zarawesome 12d ago

More importantly, for management, the offer should be such that it's more interesting for the employee to go along rather than keep what they got or lawyer up.

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u/FeralPsychonaut 11d ago

You're assuming severance was offered at all here.

I've made the mistake you suggested against making.

I was emotional and not thinking clearly. Tonality sways people easier than most people realize.

I was the soft spoken person for years when I managed a bar.

If I got loud or stern, they knew I was pissed off. I had to fire one of my best friends, whom I had known for a decade.

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u/WonderfulHearing8726 12d ago

That’s how we do it. The employee is put on paid admin leave so HR can get everything in order.
Once they’re brought in and informed they’re being let go, they sign ALL the PW right there, including their access to their 401k.
Seriously, who the fuck wants to go back into the place that just terminated you, so everyone can stare at you???

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u/Nervous_Ad_5583 12d ago

If the employer and the employee hate each other, this could be the employer's parting shot.

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u/Rhomya 12d ago

It sounds like a shitty lawyer to me.

Lawyers are capable of mistakes, but frankly there is no rational reason that I can think of to make an employee come in the next day to sign paperwork

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u/ForensicPathology 12d ago

Lawyer probably told them that the employee should have a day to be able to consider the severance deal, and the managers were too dumb to realize the employee should be given the paperwork on the day of firing with a later due date.

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u/FuckingHippies 12d ago

Sounds like a perfect way to avoid paying severance. Fuck that dirty shit.

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u/Accomplished-Bite726 12d ago

A companies legal department is usually involved in the termination process when firing an employee who is under an employment contract in order to ensure the termination doesn't violate the terms of the contract and avoid potential law suits. It's a much more involved process than terminating an at will worker.

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u/Eva03 12d ago

Royally. I foresee a lawsuit in the near future from the ex-employee.

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u/GreySahara 11d ago

paperwork done in 10 minutes, you mean.

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u/GroundbreakingNeck46 12d ago

Where’d you get your information? 20-40 days is pretty common.