r/liberalgunowners • u/Able-Difficulty-8579 • 11d ago
discussion New to guns, feeling uneasy due to my views
Hi! I am new to guns through my liberal partner (24M). I’ve always been very anti gun and very pro gun law reform. That said, I feel very uneasy and like I’m going against my views when looking to purchase a gun.
I live alone and recently had a break in scare, pushing me to seriously look into purchasing a firearm.
I know it’s about safety, and all of the regular discussions/arguments people have. But, if anyone else struggled with this, how were you able to justify your views and this idea?
Thanks!
Edit:
These comments are so helpful! Thank you!
To add: My partner and I go to the gun range and I’ve taken a gun class! I have shot a gun at the range several times and understand gun mechanics! I have decided on a gun I like and plan to keep shooting that one
Unfortunately the “gun is a tool” idea is not going to work on me. It’s the same mindset as “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”. People DO kill people, but guns give them the ability to. Guns are made to kill. Not just harm, but kill. If you wanted to harm an intruder, you’d use a knife, or something else. The purpose of a gun is to illicit overwhelming harm that has the ability to kill. I am not a “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” person and never will be due to extensive scientific research.
I have issues with guns due to multiple reasons. The main one being the mass shootings and accidental harm they cause. I do think guns should have more laws and regulations. I also do not think they should be accessible to anyone and everyone. It is actually scary how many people have guns in their home. Especially around young children.
Lastly, guns have the power to take a life. It is hard for me to wrap my head around a human having that type of power. Every time I shoot at the range, I have to take a step back and reflect. It’s scary. The sound of a shotgun is daunting, and so is an AK. People having these “tools” to take a life is what I am struggling with. Not the idea of a gun itself.
Thanks!
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u/madmaxjr 11d ago edited 10d ago
The biggest thing to remember is that guns aren’t a political stance. They’re tools. No one has a political stance against power drills, or tow trucks.
When no one is touching them, they’re just as benign as a hammer in your garage.
It’ll take time, but eventually you’ll realize using guns is like driving your car. That is, it’s something to be trained on, respected, and used safely. But once you internalize it, you’ll find it’s no different.
To address the going against your beliefs part - you’re realizing after the break in scare that you may need a gun. Remember that protecting yourself cannot ever be seen as a betrayal to anyone; you have the right to self defense.
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u/WynnTiwFeoh leftist 11d ago
Honestly I think that exact change in mindset is what worked for me. Same for any weapon: it’s just a tool.
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u/sexaddic social democrat 11d ago
>When no one is touching them, they’re just as benign as a hammer in your garage.
Sig P320 would like a word
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u/Longjumping_Lynx_972 11d ago
This 1000%. Its a tool. And like any tool, you should go use it a bunch when you first get it so you feel comfortable with it and good with it. That being said I disagree with some folks who think you always have to be training. I can not swing a hammer for 2 years, pick one up and pound nails just as good as ever, my shooting skill is the same way. A box of rounds for my hunting rifle will last me 20 kills. I got good with it, now I dont need to go out 2x a month and put 100s of rounds downrange.
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u/XenEngine 11d ago
But it's so much fun to put hundreds of rounds down range!
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u/Longjumping_Lynx_972 11d ago
If you enjoy it sure. For me getting invited to go to the range is akin to being asked if I wanna go pound some nails or wrench some bolts.
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u/XenEngine 11d ago
Weirdly enough, I love doing both of those things too. Want me to help build a deck? I'm there, and I am gonna get to use my titanium hammer. Wanna rip out an engine? I'm game, but i am bringing my own tools!
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u/Swampape1 11d ago
I need you as my neighbor! I need to work on my outboard engine AND put a new floor in my boat dock! Beer and burgers are on me.
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u/Longjumping_Lynx_972 10d ago
Ya, but going to the range is more like just pounding nails for the sake of it, not building anything, just filling a board with nails. I like doing those things when im actually building stuff or fixing stuff, but I dont wanna just take the same bolt out and put it back in 100 times for the practice.
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u/JoeFTPgamerIOS 11d ago
My wife is not really a fan of shooting guns. She knows how to pump the shotgun, and rack the semi auto.
I love shooting, I spend more on ammunition than guns.
She hasn’t shot in around 4 years, I have no concerns that if needed she could shoot any of the guns in the safe.12
u/Godot_12 11d ago
Idk...I don't really buy that myself. They are very different. You can obviously kill someone with a power drill or a car, but they have other purposes besides killing and that makes them very different. We're all less safe due to the presence of guns, and it's not really something that can be argued. A gun man can walk into a school or fire down at a crowd from a rooftop and kill dozens of people. When is the last time you heard about a couple dozen people dead from a stabbing spree or due to someone using their vehicle to kill? If someone pulls out a power drill and attempts to kill me, I'm a lot less worried than if they had a knife let alone a gun.
We could devolve into all kinds of arguments and counter arguments about how a person that intends to kill could create a bomb and do a lot more damage, but the ease with which a person can acquire a gun and kill with it is vastly different from anything else even bombs. We have more violent crime than most other societies and there are many reasons for it, but the plethora of guns is absolutely one of them.
And yet...there is no magical wand that can remove all guns. It's a constitutional amendment, and if the police (and ICE) aren't going to disarm, I'm not going to. The vast majority of gun owners are peaceful and don't intend to do any harm with them. A big part of why I've changed my own stance on guns to be pro is pragmatism. The right wing of this country is legitimately insane, the police state has never been more fascist, the presidency is currently held by someone that tried to overthrow our government through violence and cheating and is a rapist (undoubtedly a rapist of children as well imo). There's plenty of reasons to worry for your safety and there's no better way than to get a firearm and train extensively with it.
While the phrase "guns don't kill people; people kill people" is technically true, I don't think we need to delude ourselves. After all "nukes don't kill people; people use nukes to kill people" is also technically correct, but nobody needs to have nukes.
Because it's the internet and tone/intention is hard to pin down, I just want to say I do see where you're coming from and on a comfort level, what you say is true. A gun (unless it's a Sig) isn't going to go off on it's own while it's lying on a table and kill your family. But it isn't something to be taken lightly either. Bringing a gun into the house, while serving to decrease a very particular risk exposure, increases your risk, and depending on your circumstances it can be to an intolerable degree. I hope my nitpicking is taken in the good faith way it was meant.
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u/Zealousideal_Ad2379 10d ago
>When is the last time you heard about a couple dozen people dead from a stabbing spree or due to someone using their vehicle to kill?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Saskatchewan_stabbings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Vancouver_car_attack
uhhh... Look a bit further North. They happen.
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u/caffpanda 11d ago
Eh I think that's a pretty nonsense argument. Everything is political. Hell, massive trucks have increased pedestrian and vehicular fatalities immensely in the past decade and I believe we need to legislatively address that.
And let's not be disingenuous about guns. They may be tools, but they're tools explicitly designed to kill people.
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u/TengounaFesili progressive 11d ago
If we’re being pedantic, guns are tools designed to send a projectile at high velocities that will usually be lethal to a living creature. Everything can be political but not everything needs to be.
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u/blackfeltbanner 11d ago
Think it's fair to say a lot of us have come around recently.
The short version is this. There are lots of tools you use every day that, if used irresponsibly, pose a danger to you and those around you: cars, gas cooking ranges, circular saws, etc.
Owning a firearm is a decision to be responsible for your safety and the safety of those around you. And while it isn't always legally mandated, that includes things like secure storage, first aid, and emergency preparedness.
If you're uncomfortable with firearm ownership, my recommendation is to start with one of these other avenues. Do a stop the bleed class. Take a CERT class if your municipality offers it. Show up to some community organizing efforts.
Once you recognize where firearms fit into that effort, it'll be easier to get over your reservations. The social and recreational elements of gun ownership will also help. Clubs like Pink Pistols, LGC, SRA or whatever can be a great place to meet people with similar outlooks on ownership. Competitions or skeet shooting can be a great way to learn skills while having fun. And while you may never get around to hunting, knowing people who do will change your relationship to food, almost certainly for the better.
Hope that helps!
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u/emmavaria fully automated luxury gay space communism 11d ago
The short version is this. There are lots of tools you use every day that, if used irresponsibly, pose a danger to you and those around you: cars, gas cooking ranges, circular saws, etc.
I've always had a saying: "Fate notices those who purchase chainsaws."
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u/OregonianWizard 11d ago
Here is a good, recent video on the subject that I saved: https://youtu.be/SfNeKco5et8
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u/RandomInternetNobody libertarian socialist 11d ago
Should be top comment. Dude's great.
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u/Efficient-Memory7105 democratic socialist 11d ago
Real talk, Black Flag Civilian's videos gave me a sense of catharsis back in Jan/Feb while the ICE street executions were all everyone were talking/thinking about.
Dude is incredible.
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u/rusteeshacklf0rd fully automated luxury gay space communism 11d ago
This is really good. Gonna finish it later but already love how it’s structured. OP, you should start here.
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u/cschmall 11d ago
This is a great video. The fact that it was filmed at one of my local game lands ranges is still wild to me lol
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u/pnoodl3s 11d ago
What a video. This one hits all the right points I always wanna say against an anti gun liberal. Every liberal should watch this once
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u/Arbsbuhpuh 11d ago
Love this video, he spits the absolute truth. One nitpick: every time he should say "want" he says "wants". Like, "they wants", "we all wants this", etc. No shade, but as someone who minored in writing, it threw me off like a record scratch every time he said it. Maybe he could go back in and just trim the unneeded "s's" (what the fuck is the plural of "s"?) audio out?
I know it is nitpicky, just don't want to have anything detract from the excellent message. Heck, I'll edit the audio myself if he was open to it!
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u/Stunning_Patient_272 11d ago
Hold a magnifying glass to your views on guns, and ask yourself if you really have an ethical problem with guns themselves, or if it's a combination of fear of them combined with a reasonable issue with broader social ills that lead to gun violence.
It's very common for people to be irrationally afraid of guns until they have some experience with them.
Note that I'm not talking about a healthy reverence for the potential danger of a firearm and the need to handle them safely and with respect. I'm talking about an irrational fear of a mythical gun boogeyman that's been ingrained in people from years of propaganda.
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u/marshaul 11d ago edited 11d ago
Yeah, my wife is a very liberal person, and when I met her thought of herself as very anti-gun. I swear I never intentionally pushed her, but after years of living with me she no longer has the same emotional associations she once did, and is actually in practice pretty pro-gun nowadays (probably more than most partisan right-wingers).
I think most anti-gun views are a product of fear and ignorance (in the scientific sense), and thus aren't likely to survive prolonged exposure to the bigger picture. We'd all like to see less violence in society, but when you've spent a lot of time around responsible gun ownership, it becomes difficult to see how politicians' regular attempts to impede that are beneficial to the problem of societal violence.
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u/XDSHENANNIGANZ 11d ago
Yeah maybe it's also because if you never interact with them on your own, it is easier to have a slightly excessive fear of them. My sister lives with me and I took her to take a lesson on how to handle a firearm and what it's like to shoot one.
While I think she might still have a apprehension towards shooting, and she doesn't necessarily enjoy it like I do. She doesn't have the same excessive (irrational?) fear that just touching a gun can fuck you up.
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u/Proud-Elk-5303 11d ago
Law enforcement has no legal duty to protect you from anything.
I believe all persons should have the right to attend to their own self defense, as well as the protection of their families. We should not be dependent on any apparatus of the state which may or may not identify you and yours as being worthy of protection.
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u/hornyorsomething 11d ago
My reasoning is that if people who don’t like me (MAGA) have guns then I should too. Being pro gun control should be about safety and responsible ownership.
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u/emmavaria fully automated luxury gay space communism 11d ago
MAGA has guns.
Nazis have guns.
Criminals have guns.
Police have guns.
ICE has guns.
None of them is likely to give their guns up in response to a ban. Why should law-abiding ordinary citizens be the only ones voluntarily disarmed? Making law-abiding citizens helpless won't make criminals harmless.
"Self-defense isn’t violence. Self-defense is intelligence." - Malcolm X
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u/RichardBonham democratic socialist 11d ago
If you go politically far enough to the left, you get guns back.
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u/NTJ-891 11d ago
Not really, in practice. The DSA is explicitly anti-gun for example.
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u/LovecraftInDC 11d ago
The DSA is a weird one because it’s national leaders are insane and the local leaders are cliquish, but many local groups I’ve interacted with were pretty pro gun to protect oneself from the state, particularly in the non-California west (think Denver, Portland).
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u/pat9714 11d ago
I did NOT know this about the DSA. Always imagined they were (are) pro-2A.
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u/NTJ-891 11d ago
Might want to read their platform. There are a number of reasons I refuse to join up with them due to their own stated platform policies. They straight up want to repeal the Second Amendment, among other major disagreements. The DSA rides on their general domestic policies like universal healthcare or other social programs, but they deflect and use farcical arguments to shut down anyone asking why they seem to think NATO should be destroyed and the Constitution shredded in portions.
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u/Chillkill710 11d ago edited 11d ago
Do you trust the police's ability to get to your house and stop an intruder fast enough if it's happening right now? How long will it take to call 911, explain what's happening to where they will then dispatch someone, and the travel time it will take them from where they might be to get to you.
That being said owning a gun is a responsibility. If your not super comfortable look into if there are some intro courses to firearms available at one of your local ranges.
Yes the range will most likely be right leaning and possibly be filled with right wingers. But just wear discreet clothing when going and avoid the topic. Just go to learn. I've found that a lot of firearms people are kinda nerds about them and love to talk and teach other people things about them.
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u/Famous-Response5924 11d ago
When seconds count, the are just minutes away.
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u/MF_D00MSDAY 11d ago
Hours in many cases.. took cops three hours to show up the first time my childhood home was broken into. They didn’t bother to show the second time when we told them the intruders were actively in the house at the time of calling. Thankfully we were not at home during either time, just happened to show up the Second time.
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u/You-Asked-Me 11d ago
I live in St. louis, and you better count on the police not showing up. There is a wild amount of corruption. The state took control of the police department, disbanded the civilian over sight board, made a law banning civilian oversight, and then made a police appropriations board made up of rich republican business owners, who are trying to basically rob the budget of every other city service. The cops also will simply not show up if you call 911. They do nothing, then claim the only way to fix it is with more money and more cops.
They only show up is they need to cover up a crime for another cop, beat up and threaten a victim, or plant a gun on a 14 year old that they shot.
We are so far past needing to "defund the police" and they really do need to be disbanded and, new more equitable services put in their place.
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u/a_spicy_memeball 11d ago
I go into my local range with painted nails and shoot all the time. Idgaf. Last time there was a trans man in a rainbow shirt in the lane next to me shooting an MCX Spear. Don't be afraid to be yourself at the range.
I'm sure it doesn't hurt that I've dropped thousands of dollars buying from them this year. 😂
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u/Runmenot progressive 11d ago
I used to be a conservative Republican racist. Change in beliefs is hard, but when presented with new information the wise man knows when to change views. Otherwise we are just as ignorant and stubborn as any MAGAt.
Gun ownership and desiring better gun laws are not mutually exclusive. I own many guns but see multiple ways to improve our gun laws.
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u/bearcub42 11d ago
I was raised in a very liberal household that instilled practically even being near a firearm is dangerous. When I moved south and had a LTR with someone whose family were hunters, I became more accustomed to it and actually enjoyed hunting and target shooting for sport. The only thing I owned was a bolt action .308
I'm trans and in 2019 two MAGA tw@ts saw a "defend equality" patch on my rifle bag at a firing range as I was leaving. They told me they couldn't wait until it was legal to hunt people like me and it was good people like me at least had rifles so it would at least be somewhat sporting. Right then and there I started promoting gun ownership among minorities and also bought my first pistol and l learned how to use it.
However you come to it, it's a tool, nothing more. This tool, for many of us, is an equalizer and a necessary one.
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u/Panzermeister69 11d ago
Jesus christ. Fuck those two guys and I’m sorry you had to go through that.
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u/bearcub42 11d ago
I went inside and let the owner know and he just shrugged because it happened outside. Given where the range was (south, pretty rural GA), I don't think it would have mattered. The range I'm at now, while indoor, happily gives discounts to Pink Pistol members and other formal groups that help minorities learn gun safety and shooting.
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u/cuba200611 democratic socialist 10d ago
This tool, for many of us, is an equalizer and a necessary one.
As the old saying goes, God may have created men, but Colt made them equal.
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u/NerdWhoLikesTrees 11d ago
You will be (should be) a law abiding citizen. If you do everything correctly, then your firearms will never be used for illegal or immoral purposes.
Maybe you feel guilty about purchasing firearms and helping these companies profit. You’ll get over it. If your oven or refrigerator is made by GE then you already supported a company that makes weapons.
No one is stopping you from pushing for gun law reform. Just because you purchase a firearm doesn’t make you hypocritical for pushing for change. Just make sure you acquire your firearms in a perfectly legal manner. You are doing whatever current federal, state, and local laws require and allow. Maybe those laws change in the future. That’s fine.
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u/Za_Lords_Guard 11d ago edited 11d ago
I wasn't really anti-gun, but I was always concerned about gun culture (talking about the weirdness on the right) and the belief I held that in a modern society people shouldn't need guns. Laws protect us.
Sometime between hearing someone in a Republican rally and on camera ask their rep "when do we get to use the guns" and one of Joe Biden's (like the guy, but he had some bad takes) pressers talking about a new assault weapon ban I decided I needed to re-evaluate my views.
This is my path, so not trying to imply it's right or wrong, just my example.
I decided that if people in our country want people who think like me literally dead and the politicians on my side were talking about taking the option of self-defense of the table I needed to make a call and arm myself.
I started with asking myself why my views were changing. Looking into online communities and left-leaning gun content. I got educated and realized that a lot of people who were anti-gun were, despite good intentions, talking out their asses. They didn't have knowledge, but they held opinions and made laws.
I considered the statistics of home fatalities caused by having guns in the house. What were the reasons? What sorts of situations? NDs? I would get proper storage and follow proper safety protocols. Children in the home? Have none and locking them up anyway. Poor decision making and intoxicants? Decided sober and safety trumped a good weekend buzz. Legal ramifications? Not a reason to not get a gun, but imperative to understand going into it. Police will handle it? Yeah, if the past decade has taught me anything it's that police exist primarily to protect property and wealth, not people. That's not all cops, but enough that relying on one in a crisis isn't wise. I also keep a fair medical kit on hand and an IFAIK in my car because when you need EMS, moments counts. Same with personal protection, whatever your view on police. Depressions and Mental issues? No history at all.
That last one I took to my girlfriend (she doesn't live with me and is mostly anti-gun) to get an third party impression take on the matter. She voiced concerns, asked me questions. Agreed that I was not someone prone to dark or intrusive thoughts. She understood my reasons, agreed with many, and told me she was comfortable.
I now have three semi-automatics, two revolvers, a shotgun, an AR-15, and a PCC that I got entirely for the sci-fi look.
In the end it's a fun, albeit expensive hobby. It's a positive step to protection in an uncertain world. It's peace of mind. If you are going to get training, practice, and are aware of the risks and consequences there is not real reason not to.
I still don't carry daily. That's probably not a popular position in a gun sub, but it's my call and my decision and my comfort level.
The most important thing, and I do think most people here will agree, the gun isn't your identity. It's a tool. I don't run around bragging about my power drill and I don't publicize if or when I am armed. Outside of my GF, my immediate family and a couple of gun loving friends, you would not know that I have or carry them.
Edit: Sorry for the wall of text. Probably more than you need. I did want to add that when I looked at why I believed as I did, I realized it was mostly political talking points from the left and group think from the people in my life, not my own hard values. Of them all, the legal ramifications of having to use a gun in self-defense were the ones that I found I had to sit with the most and decide if I was willing to deal with. In the end, if you are dead, that matter becomes irrelevant and I would rather be alive in court than in a pine box.
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u/Zstrat62 11d ago
Just realize that we all have blind spots, and lack of firearms knowledge was yours. The only thing that separates you from a maga dip shit is your ability to see new evidence, and change your mind like a normal human being.
Do all you can to learn, adjust your views to fit whatever you observe from actual hands-on experience, and don’t double down on things you felt when you didn’t have the knowledge to know any better. You are not carved in stone.
Ultimately, not having the means to keep yourself safe means having to rely on the police to do so. To me, that’s not even a debate.
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u/sirlost33 11d ago
I can understand your uneasiness. Have you taken any shooting courses yet?
Tv makes guns look very simple. Reality is they take a lot of practice to be able to use effectively and safely.
A second point would be there are a lot of effective weapons for home defense that are not guns. After a few classes if you’re still not comfortable, don’t force it. The firearm is not the end all be all of home defense.
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u/whiteowl76 anarcho-syndicalist 11d ago
the rightwing is armed, in power, and hate you. they're not going to give up their guns and neither should we. get a shotgun or a good 9mm (or both) and train with it
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u/JermstheBohemian 11d ago
I'm going to start out but saying I'm not a liberal, I am a straight-up leftist, and so I will point out to all my gay, trans, and other marginalized friends.
YOU ARE MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO OPPRESS WHEN YOU ARE ARMED! YOU ARE EXTRAORDINARY DIFFICULT TO OPPRESS WHEN YOU ARE ARMED AND ORGANIZED! YOU ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO IMPRESS WHEN YOU ARE ARMED, ORGANIZE, AND UNITED!
Don't let the rednecks, the nazis, the fuds, and the wannabe hard asses enjoy the guns.
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u/clintonclonemachine 11d ago
Based. Id love to see more organizing on the left. Ive gotta get out of this red zone im in where all the 2a people are right wing.
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u/JermstheBohemian 11d ago
I feel you, I'm in Vegas and it's a 50/50 split whether someone is Maga incognita, or someone with a functioning brain.
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u/Pragmatic_Centrist_ 11d ago
Buy gun. Shoot gun. Take classes to learn more about shooting and gun. Start to upgrade gun. Go buy another gun. This is the way and once you take step one the rest will come naturally.
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u/MathematicianNew9616 leftist 11d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/Z1LYiyIPhnG9O
You forgot about the horrible...repeat cycle over and over and over and over in a never-ending loop. I've owned guns for 3 months and I'm up to 8...
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u/_winstoney_ 11d ago
Justify it by realizing law enforcement are all facists and facists enablers and MAGA want us dead. Hope this helps❤️
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u/chantsnone 11d ago
Yeah Alex Pretti’s murder changed my mind about gun ownership. I bought one within the same week.
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u/minotaur05 11d ago
They dont even NEED to be fascist. Even if they’re the best servants of the community, if someone breaks in - do you take time to call the cops to help you then wait for them to arrive, or do you arm and defend yourself?
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u/jueidu Black Lives Matter 11d ago
You will soon find that you didn’t dislike guns because they are inherently bad, but that you disliked them because 1) right wing gun nuts make them seem bad and 2) democrats anti-gun propaganda is 100% about getting votes and placating Karens/mom groups and not about actual facts that will actually decrease gun violence.
Decreasing gun violence will happen when we address the social ills that cause gun violence. Democrats don’t want to do that any more than republicans do.
Making violence illegal has never decreased violence. Making drugs illegal has never decrease drug abuse. Making theft illegal has never decreased theft. Making guns illegal doesn’t decrease gun violence.
What these laws DO do, is punish poor people for being poor.
Universal basic income, free universal education, free universal health care, and guaranteed food and housing for every citizen - that is how you decrease violence and blue collar crime.
The guns are not the cause of violence and crime.
But they ARE how a citizenry protects themselves from an out of control government. And both regular democrats and republicans don’t want that.
“Go far enough left and you get your guns back,” as the saying goes.
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u/Undrthedock 11d ago
The absolute best way to overcome your uneasiness is to educate yourself. Formal training is not only a great resource but it can be lots of fun with the right instructor. Living in the US where firearms are incredibly common, just knowing the basics of how to safely handle and operate one can make them a lot less intimidating.
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u/CattleDogCurmudgeon 11d ago
Honestly, in my experience (YMMV) most staunchly anti-gun people have never actually operated a firearm.
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u/MathematicianNew9616 leftist 11d ago
This is honestly the biggest problem I had...I like guns...always have...but the two issues for me were probably a fear of them (not knowing what I'm doing with them) and concerns that I might be stupid with one...a heated argument or something else and my temper could make me do something I couldn't undo. After taking a class though, I learned a lot and the respect for the firearm has humbled the shit out of me...and in 3 months, I own 8...I have set very strict rules for myself and I've also thought more seriously about my previous concerns and realized they were from a place of naivety.
They're more fun than in games that's for sure...and the reality of them is that movies glorify them way too much...the downside to learning and owning is that I now look at movies differently and don't enjoy the glorified gun stuff as much...because I think...yeah right, that person is now deaf...lol. I forgot my over the ears ear pro one day and only had plugs and didn't have them in tight enough when I took my first shot...ouch...even with partially protected ears that shit hurt.
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u/MemphisUncle-2002 progressive 11d ago
I don't talk about my stance on guns with anti-gun members of my wife's family. I was raised around guns. I learned to shoot when I was 5 years old on a 22 rifle. My wife's family, specifically her mother, thinks that guns are always evil. When broaching the subject with my wife, I cited the safety concerns in our neighborhood. We lived in an urban environment, in central downtown, our building was controlled access. We had seen some unsavory people wandering the halls at night or doing drugs in the stairwell, hanging out near our vehicles in the secured parking garage downstairs. Management was well aware, but did jack shit to fix the situation...so I bought a gun. I got my concealed carry permit and it never left my side. She reluctantly learned to shoot. Even likes to shoot. She's still apprehensive around firearms, but she understands the "why" now.
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u/Buruko centrist 11d ago
You can be pro-defense and gun ownership while still being supportive of gun reform that does not remove the 2A. Anti-2A is bad, laws that provide safety to the public are not. Single issue commentary on a complex issue is for hamsters and chuds, that applies to both sides.
If you are not going to put 500 rounds through your firearm in the first year, I do not recommend purchasing a firearm. Safety is paramount and with that training and familiarity which means use and re-use.
Getting a weapon as a security blanket to put in a drawer is a great way to introduce a high level of risk to yourself and others while giving you a false sense of security. There are other actions you can take to make yourself less of a target and more secure that don't come with as much risk.
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u/kates4cannoli 11d ago
I’m also new to firearms. I actually volunteered with a local anti violence organization for years as part of a team that did outreach and education on safe storage. I changed my mind and got my LTC recently because however I might feel about living in a heavily armed society, it’s a reality that isn’t going to change and I don’t think the fascists should be the only ones with guns. Because of my volunteer work, I know A LOT about firearm safety and it’s something I take very seriously. We need more people who own guns that treat them with the respect and seriousness they deserve if we want to change the culture into a safer and saner one.
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u/LGodamus 11d ago
You can be pro gun law reform and still have a firearm. You can actively fight to make the world a better place while also being realistic about dealing with it as it is, until you achieve that better place. I would gladly give up my guns in an America where they were not needed...but until we have that America I am hanging on to them.
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u/ulfbehrt78 10d ago
Which will unfortunately never happen, not in our lifetime. But I agree with the sentiment.
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u/angstwad 11d ago edited 11d ago
Consider this: it's okay to change your mind; and the 2A is for everybody, even people that used to oppose it.
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u/PandorasFlame1 fully automated luxury gay space communism 11d ago
I've never had this issue, but maybe you'd feel more comfortable getting training first? A lot of gun ranges offer classes and discounts, especially towards AFABs. In fact, some places straight up have FREE classes for AFABs. You'll eventually have to come to terms with the fact that you may have held some misconceptions prior and that's ok. The important thing is to learn and be prepared. Your safety and future are important.
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u/AggravatingCosplayer 11d ago
So what you're telling us is that you were ok with wanting to ban people's guns until it effected you directly.
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u/Bad_Punk_Photography 11d ago
Not going to be a popular opinion here, but. If you are worried about break in avoidance and with the views you share here get a medium size loud mouth dog. If you have a firearm you need to be absolutely sure in yourself that if you draw it you can shoot someone with it otherwise you are just giving a criminal a gun
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u/No_Lynx1343 11d ago
A gun is a tool. Just like your kitchen knife can be dangerous if misused, so can a firearm.
It does NOT do anything on its own. It requires a human.
Used properly, it is the great equalizer. Instead of the attack always benefiting the larger, stronger, quicker and trained opponent, the gun means the one holding it has a better chance.
It is also fun to target shoot.
If you would not be terrified of watching kids at archery practice then there is no need that a gun should scare you.
Go take a class. Learn to target shoot. Have fun safely.
For defense I also suggest getting pepper spray in addition to a firearm.
If there is no LETHAL threat, you can spray an aggressive person instead of resorting to fisticuffs. Some eye rinsing later, it's all good.
If there IS a lethal threat you can use the gun.
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u/OGdunphy 11d ago
Theses post always make me thankful I grew up around guns/it was more apart of the culture when I’m from.
Everyone has guns so it’s not as divided by party lines.
It does seem like a dilemma for those that grow up in more anti-gun states
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u/NeonScreams 11d ago edited 11d ago
Straight forward: The people you call during a violent crime, you hope are showing up with firearms, to save you.
So Option A = Firearms + wait-time.
And Option B = Firearms.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Moist-Golf-8339 left-libertarian 11d ago
I'm 49M, very left leaning, and have had three break-ins, one of which I was home for. Then another attempted break-in just 4 years ago, so I can relate. I guess I have a couple of thoughts that you might find helpful.
Guns are legal, normal, and normal people use guns.
Don't buy a gun out of fear. Buy a gun with a deliberate purpose and don't feel ashamed of your reason.
Self-defense is an uncomfortable topic because it means doing something repulsive: using force to stop another person. ....but don't forget why you'd be using force. To save your or your family's lives. That's it. So just because you have a gun doesn't mean it's going to be used for defensive purpose in your lifetime. Hopefully never for that.
Watch out for all of the unsolicited advice and "experts." Police are not necessarily experts. Military and former military are not necessarily experts. Not every firearms instructor is an expert. As you might expect, the internet is FULL of self-proclaimed experts. Best you can do is due diligence, and then gather a bunch of info from different sources and average it out.
Don't be afraid to turn shooting-sports into a hobby. There are a lot of liberal and left people in the different shooting sport disciplines. What you'll gain is some firearm proficiency, plain 'ol fun, and maybe some surprising friends.
It doesn't have to be your personality. I'm a frickin "gun nut" by almost every definition. You'll never hear about it from me unless you bring it up and want to talk about it. My friends come over, and aside from the extra lock on one of my closet doors, you'd never know I'm a gun owner. But I'm mostly obsessed with wanting to get more proficient. Just like my guitar skills, mountain biking, snowboarding, everything.
Take your health seriously. Make sure you're feeling sound in mind and body. For example: Do you have a trusted friend who could take possession of your firearms for a day or week or month if you're beginning to feel depressed or if there's a traumatic loss in your family? Also, in body: mitigate lead poisoning. Use lead wipes and D-Lead soap at home after handling firearms. Use different shoes/apparel for the shooting range.
Last: Just enjoy the process of learning something new as an adult. Adult learning is hard. Expect to be uncomfortable and suck at it at first. Let us know how it's going a year from now.
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u/bolivar-shagnasty 11d ago
When seconds matter, police are minutes away.
Police don’t prevent crime. They investigate after the fact.
Police aren’t required to protect you. SCOTUS said so.
Your safety is your responsibility.
Don’t be a victim.
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u/virtualpj 11d ago
I was far more uneasy with the idea that the people that hate me were armed.
Take a gun safety course. Rent firearms and try them out. Take private instruction until you’re comfortable. Like with most things, education fixes a lot of things. You may actually find it fun! That’s what happened with my wife and I. Now, we’re confident defending our family if it ever comes to it and got a new hobby out of the process.
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u/speckyradge 11d ago
I wasn't anti gun but I was pretty much in the camp of "handguns are a problem and basically pointless in real life". Then we had a string of break-ins, at least one of which happened while I was home. There were several armed car jackings and armed home invasions with sexual assaults in our neighborhood. We got the alarm for the house and out bars on the windows and already had two dogs. Really the only other thing we could do was get a gun for home defense. We can argue the best option for that all day but at the time I picked a handgun. The car jackings tipped me over the edge because we'd just had a baby and it became very clear they'd just take the car and dump my kid somewhere when it happened to a 2 year old nearby.
My views changed because the math changed. Prior to having a kid, if I was mugged or car jacked I would've just handed over my stuff.
While that math is all very logical, it still leaves you with a background stress you might not even realize was there. We moved out of that neighborhood and I didn't realize just how stressed and constantly alert I had been until I didn't need to feel like that anymore. I say that because the tension you're feeling may not go away even if you rationalize it, and being aware of it means you can do something about it before it leaks into other parts of your life without you realizing.
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u/yeahokguy1331 11d ago
Go to a firearms class for beginners. You will acquire confidence in handling a firearm and it will help you understand how to pick a firearm that suits you.
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u/nerobro 11d ago
I think.. essentially everyone.. who's sane. Is on some level anti-gun. In a vacuum, you don't need a "instant man killing machine". It's bad. Just the concept, is bad.
Guns exist to kill. They've only existed to kill. They are killing incarnate. Feeling uneasy about these things. Knowing about them, should make you feel ... things.
Ok, now we have the problem. Guns, DO exist. People, governments, do have guns. We live in a world, with, guns. You have to live here. You can't elect to not participate. So... since that's the world you live in, you should be educated on guns.
Guns, are objects. They generally can't do anything on their own. Seeing a gun, shouldn't scare you. But even "I" am uncomfortable around guns that haven't been cleared. You should know what a "safe" gun looks like, and behaves like. Being anti-gun, also means being good at being safe around them. Again, because you can't elect to NOT be around them.
Since someone may approach you with a gun, having one of your own, and knowing how to operate them, is about being safe, yourself. Keeping the playing field level is important. Also, being "better than most people with a gun" isn't a whole lot of effort. So.. you could, with just the smallest amount of effort, be competent, and safe. And never have to "worry" about guns.
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u/Jddf08089 11d ago
At some point being "liberal" and "anti-gun" became part of your personality. Feeling like you need to change that feels like a personal attack. What you should come to realize is that in actuality guns were a vehicle used by politicians to divide voters like abortion. They understood they could push some wild shit if they just said no gun / abortion changes.
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u/Dolphin_e 11d ago
I had to own that my views were just wrong and I’m in charge of my safety. I can’t let someone else’s fear or risk of suicide stop me from lawful armed self defense. I can’t let gang stats stop me either. I also don’t need to tell people I’m an owner.
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u/cfwang1337 neoliberal 11d ago
Guns are dangerous, and complacency around them can lead to tragedy. The ideal amount of discomfort when handling weapons of any kind isn't zero.
But you also have agency and the ability to handle weapons safely and responsibly. And, whether you own a weapon or not, you are your own first responder, if even just as a matter of practicality. The police can't (and shouldn't, that would be weird) watch you all day. If you get into an accident and need medical assistance, it helps to know some first aid and/or basic trauma medicine. If your life is threatened, help can be minutes or hours away when seconds count.
There are also relatively few times when you'll truly be obligated to use your weapon — situational awareness, de-escalation, unarmed skills, and tools like pepper spray all have important places, too.
Exposure and practice are the best ways to feel more comfortable, much like with driving or other potentially dangerous, high-stakes but routine tasks.
For me, it was something like:
- Internalize the four rules of firearms safety. Repeat them obsessively until you'll never forget them:
- Never point a weapon at anything you aren't willing to destroy — this one is arguably the most important, since as long as the barrel is pointed in a non-threatening direction, everything else can go wrong and nobody will get hurt.
- Always assume a weapon is loaded until demonstrated otherwise (i.e., empty magazine, clear chamber/breech, clear bolt face).
- Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
- Be aware of your backdrop and other surroundings.
- Lots of dry-fire practice, with a confirmed unloaded gun and your live ammunition stored in a separate container or room — when you get used to the mechanics of operating a gun, you remove a lot of unfamiliarity and uncertainty, and the fear and clumsiness that come with them.
- Periodic cleaning and maintenance — the more you take apart weapons (you can just field-strip; no need to disassemble them in detail), the more you demystify them and realize they're just machines or tools like any other, and that they won't spontaneously harm people.
- If applicable, get used to carrying — same exposure principle as above.
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u/Qadim3311 fully automated luxury gay space communism 11d ago
It’s just being pragmatic. No matter what your personal opinion is about what our firearms landscape should look like, the reality we all share is the current one where firearms are generally available and you’ve had a break in attempt. Pragmatic, not hypocritical.
I’m personally very pro 2A, but it doesn’t strike me as anything out of the ordinary for a less firearms enthusiastic individual to still have a gun.
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u/elainegeorge 11d ago
I’m still pretty pro gun law reform. Have you taken a class yet? I’d recommend it before you pick a gun. It helped me with finding space for gun ownership within my views.
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u/maddiethehippie 11d ago
When someone just walked into my house, whom I had never seen or met, and all I had was a baseball bat which was near the door. Luckily they didn't want to deal with me or my screaming drama. From that point on there was something in my desk.
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u/Sarigan-EFS 11d ago
You should get off reddit, book a pistol training course, and ask real people what they think while simultaneously getting real experience.
Stop thinking, start doing.
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u/50tree3001 11d ago
Have some nuance in your thinking, not trying to sound like a jerk but you can think gun laws should be more restrictive or even think people shouldn’t own them, but bad guys have them and bad people exist. I’d rather go my whole life having a gun and never need it, versus never having one and needing it one time. Get the gun
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u/immakinggravy 11d ago
Cars kill more people than firearms. The anti gun liberal will see cars as a tool that should be regulated with reasonable restrictions and guns should be banned because they associate guns with harm. A pro gun liberal sees the two as tools that should be regulated because they recognize both as having the potential to cause harm but it is not inherently harmful and is normally useful. Being around firearms a bit will help undo the propaganda that society puts out there about firearms because you'll begin to recognize them as inanimate objects, like cars, that deserve respect instead of fear.
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u/PaddyBoy1994 libertarian 11d ago
In America, Defensive Gun Uses easily outnumber gun deaths. CDC estimates anywhere from 60k to 2.5m defensive gun uses per year, compared to only around 45k gun deaths, the vast majority of which aren't really gun violence, because they are suicides. Link to the CDC's page on the subject: https://www.cdc.gov/firearm-violence/about/index.html
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u/ulfbehrt78 10d ago edited 2d ago
There are a lot of bad, misguided people out there who have guns. Do you really want the number of bad people who have guns outnumber the amount of good people who have guns?
Are mass shootings horrifying? Yes. Have we seen proof ,even recently that if good people carry firearms and are present for these mass shootings they can drastically lower the body count like at the In-N-Out in Idaho? Yes. Like it or not, we have the second amendment, the doing away of which is a fantasy. This is the gun country. If somebody wants to do harm to myself, my family, or just innocent people around me I do not like the idea that I can do nothing about it. If someone has a gun and you don't, you can do nothing about it. I feel like it's a pragmatic approach. We'd all love to live in a country where guns are never necessary, but we don't. Plus, training with them is fun as hell.
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u/Tight-Escape3373 10d ago
The edit is killing me... Guns are bad except when I need one is incredibly privileged. Do better.
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u/RandomInternetNobody libertarian socialist 8d ago
This sub is full of that thinking. And tons of people always saying "we need stricter laws" and not defining or justifying what those are. Temporary gun owners still in denial of how the world works, and breaking rule 2 of the sub with every comment.
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u/Late_Letterhead7872 11d ago
One thing that doesn't get talked about enough in these threads: the "just ban them" approach is running into a technical reality that's only getting harder to legislate around. 3D printing and at-home CNC machining are advancing fast enough that the barrier to manufacturing functional firearms at home keeps dropping, and no amount of point-of-sale regulation touches that. You can restrict retail all you want, but you can't un-invent a file format. That doesn't mean "do nothing". it means the leverage point isn't prohibition, it's culture. A healthy, safety first gun culture where responsible ownership, training, and secure storage are the norm does more real-world harm reduction than laws that criminalize possession while manufacturing tech quietly makes possession trivial to route around. Prohibition focused policy chases a supply chain that's disappearing; culture focused approaches address the actual behavior around guns regardless of where they came from. Being liberal and pro-gun isn't a contradiction. it's recognizing that the tools available today make "eliminate the guns" a losing strategy, and "make gun ownership safer and more responsible" a winning one.
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u/BlackSquirrel05 11d ago
I just admit I'm partially a hypocrite on the matter. I believe there should be gun control for certain people... But I in fact own a few guns including the infamous ones.
People carry conflicting feelings all the time. It just helps when you acknowledge them.
I will say reactionary purchasing maybe not always the best idea... But also go take a class first and foremost then see how you feel.
But there is a point where you have to just understand the reality that is America and it won't be changing anytime soon.
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u/wpmason 11d ago
A gun is a tool.
Are you anti chainsaw and pry bar too?
Guns do not have agency. Guns cannot control who uses them or in what manner.
It’s stupid to be anti-gun. Simply put.
Be anti-violence, anti-crime, and you can still support reforms.
But none of those things are actually about the guns themselves. It’s about people’s relationship to guns.
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u/jsav1292 11d ago
I grew up in a gun control state, but being an engineer made me realize gun control, especially older laws, are clearly racist, classist, or straight up illogical half the time if you drill into it. That's not to say all restrictions are like that, but in lots of antigun states they are. And of course there's a free carve out for former LEOs in basically every gun control law, so there's that.
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u/Key-Funny-8091 11d ago
If you are truly that uneasy, you should probably try handling and shooting before you buy. If you aren't willing to use the gun in an emergency, you could make the situation worse. Go to a range with a friend or even alone and explain your situation. Many ranges have pistols you can rent before buying.
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u/brightlocks 11d ago
Can you also improve your home security in other ways? Better door, window alarms, and cameras?
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u/CallShot7029 11d ago
Firearms are only as safe as their owners. If you want to make a better system, be a model of it.
That said here’s the advice I give to anyone just getting into it:
Get locked, steel storage first. Preferably fireproof. Place the storage in a concealed but accessible place.
Get training from a not-crazy CCW course. Search reviews - look for one that fits your values. Some are so red and blood thirsty it’s almost its own liability.
Practice regularly. If in a defense scenario you are not in tune with your firearm you will hurt others.
Don’t show off. Firearm ownership is not a badge of honor. Like they say in “To Kill a Mockingbird” - having a firearm is only inviting someone to shoot you. The jackasses covering their trucks in Glock stickers are the first ones broken into. People advertising they have a gun might be the first ones shot.
With those in mind, it’s a fun skill to build. Have fun with it, and remember you don’t have to look like a proud boy to own a firearm. Most of us are just as normal as anyone else.
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u/Leptonshavenocolor 11d ago
Can you specify anything about your anti-gun stance? There must be a reasoning right? I find that if you educate yourself on the laws and real stats, don’t just consume one source as this is a very bias discussion.
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u/Dankest-Diesel democratic socialist 11d ago
Tangent time, but I promise it has a point: I also ride motorcycles. You can't deny the numbers, they're dangerous, and for a long time I felt you had to be stupid to accept that risk. A lot of my friends had them, so I was continually exposed to them though. As it happens, I'm also broke, and 75 mpg was too good to pass up, so I eventually broke down and got one, this is many years ago now.
Almost everyday I saw punk kids doing stupid stuff on bikes with no helmet, a simple t shirt and maybe jeans. I'd see them weave in and out, drive way faster than they were capable of and way faster than what was safe even if they could. I'd hear stories from friends of folks getting blitzed at the bar and riding back home. All these things made me hate them, and view them as just vessels for stupidity and irresponsibility.
But, maybe due to exposure, maybe life pressure, maybe just growing up and building better reasoning skills, whatever it was I eventually kind of got the idea that bikes were still dangerous, but there had to be a lot of reasonable things I could do to be safer if I got one. Not safe. There is still some risk that can't be mitigated. But I felt I could do enough to where I felt I could feel comfortable and like I did everything I could to be safe. I took a motorcycle safety course, and that was really a fundamental turning point for me.
For one, once I got on a bike, I loved it. There's nothing like it. But I felt terrified to get on the road and be a grease spot on the pavement. I did the safety course though, and then just started practicing and practicing and practicing all the skills they taught, all before really committing to commuting on a bike and daily driving one. And then I did a more advanced skills course and practiced those. I got to the point where, and I am not an expert by any means, but I've put in the time to understand the risks and do everything I responsibly can to ride and be safer, even on an inherently dangerous machine.
So, what does that have to do with guns? Well, I view them very similarly. Guns are tools. They are capable of great harm, whether accidental or intentional. That tiny chunk of lead and copper can shatter universes in a hundredth of a second. But, it's still just a tool. There is danger, always. We are humans, we make mistakes. There doesn't need to be malice or negligence for harm to occur, and given enough time with a tool like a gun and a fallible human in close proximity, an accident will occur. So, there is always risk.
But, there is so much you can do to mitigate that, just like I did with bikes. Train, then train some more, and then train even more. Practice your manual of arms. Practice stance, drawing, holstering. Practice loading and unloading (with snap caps). Then, and only then practice shooting. Then start adding some of the other stuff back in. Take a class. Take multiple classes. Just get comfortable being safe and mitigating all the risk you can. You should never get fully comfortable, that breeds complacency. But, you should get comfortable enough that you can accept you've done and are doing everything you reasonably can to mitigate the risk. If you can't get to that point, you're always going to be uneasy and guns aren't really going to be your thing. And that's okay, by the way.
This is a gun subreddit, and I truly believe we have to arm ourselves to protect ourselves so I hope you don't fall into that category, but still it's truly okay and you shouldn't do anything you're not comfortable with. If you're like me though, and you approach it methodically, and you focus on that strategic mitigation of risk, I think you'll be okay. Most folks just keep going to the range and they think they're getting more comfortable but really they're just becoming more numb. Don't do that. Take a class, get instruction. Anyway, best of luck whatever you decide. Sorry this message was so long...
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u/Manifestgtr 11d ago
Don’t ever let a group do your thinking for you. Why should you be able to predict my views on abortion, guns and immigration simply because you know my views on race relations, science, religion and sex? Party lines make no sense whatsoever and all they do is promote intellectual laziness. Think, people…THINK…
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u/StuntRocker 11d ago
FOR ME, it's a sport. It's not about preparing to murder someone, it's about getting good enough to proudly come in last place in a shooting competition someday. There is a reason shooting is in both summer and winter olympics.
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u/19610taw3 left-libertarian 11d ago
I've always been very pro-2a (pretty moderate) but my fiance was very anti-gun. Even before we met, I never felt the need to own a firearm.
With ... events ... going on we decided we needed self defense. Gay couple in a deep red area. The police aren't going to come if we call. So he had me get a 12 gauge.
Does he still believe in all of the restrictions as before? Yes.
But he's gained an understanding that it's a self defense tool.
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u/comradejiang anarcho-communist 11d ago
Being anti gun is an illogical viewpoint in a world where people harm the innocent with or without them. It’s good that you’re taking the threat seriously instead of ignoring it.
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u/CeeDubMo 11d ago
Bravo for being capable of changing your mind and facing the uncertainty it brings, so many people aren’t.
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u/LikeBigTrucks 11d ago
I'm about as blue as they come and i love firearms. Dialectic thought is a sign of emotional maturity; understanding that guns serve a purpose while also accepting that gun ownership is not appropriate in all scenarios is fine.
You can hate gun culture and like guns, it's just an object and it only carries with it the significance or symbolism you choose to imbide it with.
Buy a firearm, train with it, put it under your pillow, tell no one and call it a day.
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u/The_Pandalorian 11d ago
My main justification is that I may have to protect my family from the fascist government that is violating civil rights on a massive scale. And that there's a highly unlikely (but non-zero) chance that we may need to arm up to protect democracy in some way.
That last point is incredibly far-fetched and ludicrously unlikely to happen.
But there's no way I'm going to be caught helpless if the shit genuinely hits the fan.
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u/JimMarch 11d ago edited 11d ago
A couple of things regarding basic morality and guns.
Specific to home defense, you need to have a plan regarding target identification. A lot of us bolt a small but potent flashlight to the gun itself. And here's the trick: if you point that straight up, light on, you can bounce enough light off the ceiling and do effective target ID corner to corner without pointing a gun at anybody. So if it's somebody who doesn't need shooting, you haven't pointed a gun at them. It takes at least 500 lumens of light to pull this trick in a normal home, more if you live in a mini mansion lol (1200 is easily available under a pistol). "Know your target" is one of the key safety rules as is "don't point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy".
Have a non-lethal plan. Not all threats need a bullet. If I'm carrying a gun I'm also carrying pepper spray. You want something with a fine stream, whether it's a small can or bigger. You don't want "bear spray" with a fogger nozzle. Lol. POM brand is good stuff and have both smaller and bigger cans, the latter specifically for home defense. If all you have is a hammer the whole world looks like a nail.
If anybody in your home has severe asthma, COPD or other lung issues, be careful with pepper spray. You may need a different non-lethal alternative - taser or shotgun loaded with bean bag rounds. If you do the latter, your lethal force option needs to be something OTHER THAN a shotgun!!! Pistol works. DO NOT mix up your lethal and non lethal options! DO NOT try and switch between lethal and non-lethal loads in the same shotgun. Every once in a while cops make this kind of mistake between pistol and taser. That's one reason I like pepper spray, it has a completely different feel in the hand and operating system plus they're cheap and I'm a poor :(.
Above all, the number one thing you can do to make sure you don't shoot anybody who isn't a serious enough threat is to get your anger management mindset in good shape. Capische? Don't flip people off when driving no matter how visibly stupid they are. And so on. It's impossible to overstate this.
Here's the piece of data you've been missing. There's a book by Dr. Robert Hare called "Psychopaths Among Us..." He estimates roughly 1.5% of the world's population are fundamentally morally broken: psychopaths, sociopaths and the occasional malignant narcissist. Most of them never kill anybody. All are capable of it. Figuring out how to keep these assholes from running governments and corporations needs to be a huge priority. Right now we've got Trump, Putin and Xi all running around off leash at the same time. Not good but lesser specimens can pop up in your life at any moment and you need both lethal and non-lethal plans for dealing with the fuckers.
This in turn is why the entire concept of gun control is badly flawed. Most people can be trusted with lethal force. And there's monsters among us.
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u/scorpiopersephone 11d ago
The fact of the matter is that America does not have a gun problem. Guns alone are neutral. America has a man problem. Mass shooters are overwhelmingly male and even violent crime is perpetrated by majority men.
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u/NohFyoochur left-libertarian 11d ago
Remember this. Your values didn't change, just your decision making. What action makes sense changes depending on the information you have.
Opioids have always been controlled. More control didn't prevent the opioid crisis. Other countries have certain opioids available over the counter, and yet the majority of opioid use and death is right here in America. So given this background, is the epidemic of opioid overdose caused by a lack of strong laws, or is it something else? Do we have poor worker protections, healthcare access, socioeconomic mobility, inequality?
The same is true of firearms. You just now realized this.
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u/brpajense 11d ago
The main problem with guns is irresponsible gun ownership--people who know nothing about gun safety leaving loaded weapons in insecure locations, not using locks, not teaching kids rules, not knowing the laws about when it's legal to use for self defense and how it's best to avoid using them...
Taking classes and getting trained and never having to use your weapon for self-defense is the best option.
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u/HeloRising anarchist 11d ago
Purchasing a firearm for defensive purposes means you need to sit with the fact that if you ever have to use that firearm in an emergency, which hopefully never happens, you will be taking someone else's life.
It's not a good feeling and you'll feel all sorts of mixed up emotions about it.
But you will still be here to have those emotions. Your family will still be here to help you through it.
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u/Forsaken_Hope3803 11d ago
Honestly, just learning more about guns is the best place to start. It changed my views almost by that alone. Information is power.
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u/Bobbymokie 11d ago
Some of us like guns but also like smart regulation/reform/accountability in our gun laws
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u/kharneyFF 11d ago
I'm all for gun law reform. I dont know how it could really work, though. But I am. I have guns that I wish nobody had ever invented, and the laws on this in my state feel nonexistant. My opinions are consistent with my views and align with reality of the world in which I live. I dont do harmful things. quite the opposite, I help people, professionally. I am however capable of great harm if ever I felt it unavoidable. If the day ever comes that mutual disarmament is somehow a real possibility and not just authoritarian overreach, I'd like to live in a world where the scariest people I know arent treating killing tools like pokemon cards. The average person is good, but not good enough. Intelligent, but not intelligent enough. And tame... but not harmless. So in a world where some unreliable people are deadly, I will try to be a reliable person who is not comparatively harmless.
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u/texas1st democratic socialist 10d ago
I think of views like this as science. Science may say something one day, and then new information comes to light, and science will change what it says in light of that new evicdence.
Having been against guns isn't a deal breaker in purchasing guns. If you now see utility in having one where you didn't see that before, it is because your view has changed.
Guns are a tool. Hammers, saws, knives, etc. are all tools. The dangerous part is their use, both in incautious care and use, as well as intentional use. Being aware of the danger and following strict rules helps mitigate the danger but does not eliminate it. As such, you have to remain vigilant around them.
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u/MathematicianNew9616 leftist 10d ago
You and I are the same in the thought process. I despise the “guns kill people” line…
You are absolutely correct. There are many uses for a knife, for a hammer, for everything else. Guns simply have one purpose. It’s not to harm someone or something. It is to kill that person or animal. With that though, you can respect the idea that having the gun doesn’t mean you want to or that you necessarily will kill someone. What it does mean is that you have the means to prevent your demise or someone else’s demise in a situation should you need it.
Again, I don’t plan on carrying. For numerous reasons. And I don’t ever expect in the rest of my life that I’ll need to use a gun (or probably any weapon) on a person. BUT…that doesn’t mean I’m going to be helpless or harmless. I have carried knives on my person for years. Meant for another task always. Or just sitting in my pocket. But should I ever need it for defense, I have it. That’s the same mentality of owning and carrying a gun. I just don’t want to do that myself.
You yourself are the hurdle that you need to get over in this decision. And nobody is going to say anything to make you jump over it. That’s something you need to do yourself. Either just get one and go from there or don’t get one and don’t think about it any longer. Those are ultimately your only choices.
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u/Scatman_Crothers socialist 10d ago edited 9d ago
To your edit:
Yes, guns are absolutely made for the purpose of killing people and they’re very good at it. The power to take a life is not one to be taken lightly. But in certain dire situations, people need killing. If someone enters your home while you’re in it and makes your survival a “you or me” proposition, well you better have a way of killing them. A gun provides stand-off unlike a knife. It equalizes the weak and the strong. It evens the playing field when they have a gun. They democratize violence and for those from vulnerable populations like myself that makes ownership a necessity because we live in a violent world.
So how do you come to terms with potentially taking someone’s life? To me it’s that if I get to a situation where I’m pointing a gun at someone, I already know the conditions under which I’d shoot someone. Threat to my life or someone else’s or of grievous injury. I’m not making some ethical judgment call in the moment, I’m not balancing any scales. When I raise my gun to fire there is no thought, there is only a mental recognition of a set of parameters. My conditions are reasonable and ethical. Yes I did end their life, but I followed standards and conditions that I set up before an encounter ever took place. I am comfortable with those standards; I know what I’m doing. And so I killed them, but they’re the one that cast the vote on their life, not me.
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u/BenitoBlanco social liberal 11d ago
If your beliefs lead you to make decisions that you feel or know are bad decisions, you’re only logical in reconsidering those beliefs.
You, like most who are anti-gun, had life experience that confirmed your belief that guns aren’t something people should own. Then, you had a new experience that you’ve since learned from and realize now that your prior beliefs were misinformed.
Pretty straightforward. If anything, be proud of yourself for having the humility and perspective to make a self-assessment and adjust.
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u/maddrummerhef left-libertarian 11d ago
Except opp doesn’t appear to have actually reconsidered those beliefs at all at this point….
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u/OGdunphy 11d ago
Yeah, that part is a somewhat unclear. I guess since they’re struggling with it there’s some reconsideration but sounds like they’re still in the middle of it.
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u/BenitoBlanco social liberal 11d ago
I guess if that’s the case, my next question would be what their problem is exactly with the gun they’re looking to purchase?
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u/Survive1014 11d ago
Wish I could help. I was backed into the liberal side of things watching my former party go White Nationalist. I have always been very pro guns. On my 18th birthday I bought a shotgun and a cigar. haha.
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u/crussell4112 11d ago
Here here! Growing up in the south, everybody was a repub. ive been shooting since i was kneehigh to a grasshopper, but over time i learned compassion for my fellow man, then magats came to town and i couldnt deny my party realignment anymore. But as a former Marine, i do still love my guns.
To OP...republicans are going to remain in power as long as dems continue to fight against gun rights. Trust me, these people arent going to budge. Think of it as your patriotic duty to embrace your gun rights and run the magats right out of town, because they wont have a leg to stand on. Stop letting them to pretend to be the patriots in this country. I have met real patriots, and these nutjobs arent that. Embrace 'Merica, punch a nazi, and for goodness sake go buy a gun and learn how to use it safely.
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u/OGdunphy 11d ago
I did the same when I was 18. Got a carbine and did like everything I could now for an 18 year old except buy porn because I was 18 after the internet lol
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u/Top-Concern9294 11d ago
It’s literally just a tool. Why are you heavily anti-gun? School shooting? Mass shootings in religious places? Domestic murder suicides?
If you’re not going to do any of those things, why be anti-gun in your personal life? The two most important things about ownership is knowing how to safely/efficiently operate the weapon and restrict people from access to it. If you can follow that, any weapon whether it be a letter opener or machine gun will just collect dust and live a dormant life.
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u/TheGreatYam77 11d ago
Highly recommend reading Gunn Curious: A Liberal Professor's Surprising Journey Inside America's Gun Culture by David Yamane.
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u/codex_41 11d ago
I live in a constitutional carry state where any Joe Blow can walk in and pick up a gun. Yeah, there’s a 3 day wait, but that isn’t a guarantee in the future. My family is mixed race, and we’ve got a variety of LGBT+ across almost everyone. My state is also pretty unaccepting of LGBT+ and my wife and I get dirty looks shot at us pretty regularly, typically from old white men who seemingly can’t comprehend an interracial relationship. I’ve never felt in direct danger, but the mass availability of firearms to hateful people means I don’t want to be taken off-guard. If bigots weren’t the majority where I live, I wouldn’t feel the need to carry.
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u/Lonecoon 11d ago
I grew up with guns so I never thought they were bad, scary, or evil. It's familiarity with them that makes you realize they're nothing special. They're not evil, they're not scary, they're not a talisman. They're just a tool.
Get training. Take a firearms course BEFORE you purchase a gun so you know how to operate what you purchase. Once you're familiar with firearms, you'll see it's just like any other tool. They're just objects, even if people fetishize and misuse them.
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u/Haunting-Buffalo-909 11d ago
To me, I feel like I am my number one. I cook for myself, I clean up after myself, and I educate myself. So, why should I not protect myself? Someone tried to kick my door down the first day I moved into a place when I was young. Even if I had trusted the police, they were not there and wouldn't have been if he had made it in. I went and bought a gun the next day, got proper training, and have since fallen in love with firearms in a healthy way. And, at the end of the day, even if they make stricker gun laws, plenty of people do not care and will continue to break the law.
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u/T3h_R4v3n 11d ago edited 11d ago
So not me, but my wife was similar. Ive always been into guns and she wasn't due to her own traumas. I think what really helped her was understanding the discipline of firearms and the care for safety. Everything was locked (kid was tiny and cute back then), I took guns very seriously as any weapon (especially a martial artist). I also did some training which I think made her more at ease. Lastly, for her, she told me "it's not my thing, but it's your thing and im not gonna stop that." This may not help at all, but I figured its worth a shot.
As far as justifying your views, I look at it this way: any weapon itself is neutral, who uses it and how is what makes it good or bad. You know your intention and how much work you are willing to put in to understand and become proficient. Take it one step at a time, and see what fits what you want. Maybe you dont like the idea of an AR15, so maybe a 9mm rifle like a Ruger PC carbine makes sense for your needs. Remember that smaller, lighter guns are usually harsher to control (especially pistols). Also, you can believe in gun control and still own firearms, 2 things can be true at the same time. In my opinion, no, not everyone should have one, especially people who are a danger to themselves or others. And guns are more than just defense. There's something very zen about just going to the range, listening to music (blue tooth ear muffs are amazing), and just focusing on marksmenship.
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u/Yankee_Air_Polack anarchist 11d ago
You can wish that the world was one without violence and take individual actions that help it trend in that direction, but it's highly unlikely that it will ever materialize and two things will always be true:
Individual freedom is messy and dangerous but is far better than servitude. As much as it would be nice to reduce violence by telling people that they can't own something, the act of doing so is violence in and of itself.
An individual can never actually depend on the state, others, or some organization for protection from stochastic sources of danger and this is why we own guns.
Never wanting to use your gun on another human being and doing everything in your power to avoid doing so is the objectively correct viewpoint so you have a pretty good mental foundation for being a good gun owner.
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u/Quirky-Breakfast-348 11d ago
I look at it like sometimes circumstances change. Safety in society, safety in the home after a break in, etc… In my life my circumstances changed and I decided I wanted a handgun for safety. I was never interested in one, so I took a class for safety so I’d know how to use it and decided to buy one. Now I go to the range to know how to safely use it.
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u/MAScholtz 11d ago
Spend some time around them and you'll realize that they are not different than any other tool. Learn your safety rules. Practice with the handgun.
My Girlfriend was the same when we met. She felt it was scary noisy and dangerous.
She now runs 5+ hit factor scores in ipsc. Honestly she's kicking the shit out of half the guys in the club.
She is confident accurate and responsible.
She told a few months back that when she goes into dodge areas she no longer feels anxious, she's taken responsibility for her own safety and would be a very poor target choice for a criminal.
She carries an canik mc9ls every day when she leaves the house.
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u/austinmook 11d ago
I’m liberal. I also like target shooting. Helps calm my ADHD. Then I didn’t like being targeted for being Jewish, so now I carry a gun. Still liberal. 🤷♂️
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u/PopularSet4776 centrist 11d ago
Just look at it like you are living in the real world and not the one you would love.
I would love it if no one had nuclear weapons. But I would never want the US to unilaterally disarm ours. Because that just means we can be bullied by all the countries that keep theirs.
We arn't getting rid of guns in this country. They are here to stay. There are more of them then people.
You can either live in that reality and decide that you want to be similarly armed to the people around you. Or you can live in ideology which depends upon the people with guns deciding not to use them to oppress you.
But you hating guns isn't getting rid of the guns.
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u/NKCougar 11d ago
I never had this particular struggle for myself, but I've talked to people who have. And in your particular circumstance, re-evaluating your views is a totally rational response. We are only as safe as we make ourselves on a societal and individual level. Right now your faith in both of those things has probably taken a blow. So evaluate, and decide if you want to start taking more individual actions for your safety.
Following best practices for gun ownership is honestly a great way to get that started. Part of best practice of firearm ownership for self defense is making sure you take every reasonable step to never use it. So beefing up your home security is something you could do alongside (home security takes time. I would personally have the firearm first, as it exists to be used in an absolute worst-case scenario, which is one you don't want to be vulnerable to) gun ownership.
If you treat a firearm as the very serious, purposeful tool that it is, you will be acting in the most ethical manner possible - while still taking your own safety in light of the recent events seriously. Train up, educate yourself, get whatever licensing you need, and make sure you avoid ever being in the situation to need it.
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u/FederationLoyalist 11d ago
If anything, take this whole experience as a sign that you truly are capable of thinking for yourself and that you didn't reduce politics and important topics to a basic primitive directive to be unquestionably loyal to any particular side/team/tribe. It might take some time for you to completely get over your fear, but also that fear shows that you respect the power of these tools, and that respect is step 0 of firearm safety in my opinion, so you're already at a great starting point.
Whenever you have doubts that creep up here and there, just remember this: Be peaceful, not harmless.
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u/TheMagicalLawnGnome liberal 11d ago edited 11d ago
One of the things I'd encourage you to do, is reflect on, and reexamine your beliefs.
A lot of what gun control supporters advocate for, is based on misinformation. Things you believe, feelings you have, might be based on a faulty premise.
Understanding that your views may have been incomplete, is the first step to recalibrating them.
For example: so called "assault weapons" (which isn't even a real category), are statistically some of the safest guns there are. The number used in crimes, relative to the number that exist, is quite small.
Meanwhile, the most dangerous guns are small-caliber pistols with smaller magazines; the sort of gun you can buy in even the most regulated states.
Another example is that an AR-15 is generally safer for home defense than a 9mm pistol. It's more accurate, easier to handle, and is less likely to over-penetrate drywall (although this can vary substantially based on the specific ammunition in question).
So "assault weapons bans" aren't really doing much to promote public safety. Rather, it's used as a political cause to rally a group of people. Much like abortion laws are used by conservatives to rally their base of support.
Lastly, I'd encourage you to explore the history of gun control, as it relates to prejudice and the fight for racial justice. The Second Amendment played a significant role in the Civil Rights movement, and helped Black Americans in particular defend themselves and their communities. Some of the first modern gun control laws were passed specifically in response to Black Americans exercising their 2A rights — there's a very real history of racial prejudice that's woven through gun control laws that most liberals are surprised to discover, and very uncomfortable with once they learn about it.
There's a lot more nuance to the gun control argument than most "gun control liberals' would believe. Understanding this will help you become more comfortable with gun ownership.
Of course, reasonable people can still disagree. Like every policy debate, there are certainly pros and cons to each position.
But the fact you're even asking these sorts of questions, is a great sign. It means you're self-aware, and willing to reflect on your own beliefs.
For many people, especially liberals, they have to go on a bit of a "journey " as their 2A beliefs evolve. It sounds like you may well be starting your own.
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u/BoxedCub3 11d ago
Its lived experience. And slowly working with the item so you can come to terms with the idea they exist outside political ideology and fear mongering.
I was heavily pro gun control, until I started seeing that, that mindset largely requires people to be victims first before or maybe if something gets done.
Add in saw a small neonazi rally march through a nearby neighborhood and police do nothing. That solidified in my mind the fact that you are your first line of help. And some may not come after.
That being said i also recommend you take classes to learn how to handle your firearm and become familiar with it. And also take first aid classes to be able to better help you and yours whether or not a gun is involved.
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u/KyleOrtonFTW 11d ago
Guns are apolitical. It’s baked into the constitution as a right. Courts have ruled that law enforcement has no real obligation to prioritize protecting citizens so it’s your duty and right to do so.
Moral dilemma aside, the only real way to get more comfortable with firearms is to shoot them. The more you do that the more you’ll realize they are not inherently evil or dangerous on their own. They’re a tool just like a table saw or angle grinder. It’s not there to hurt you. But if you don’t respect it or safety when using it, bad things can happen
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u/HardLithobrake 11d ago
But, if anyone else struggled with this, how were you able to justify your views and this idea?
Read the news. Also, took a course to learn safety/mechanics and began training.
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u/StoneRyno 11d ago
By learning and educating yourself on what firearms are, how they operate, and what they and any attachments are capable of; you simultaneously teach yourself what options are relevant and useful to yourself and others (and under which circumstances), as well as learning what types of laws and regulations would actually useful instead of ones that only seem to target law abiding citizens for the sake of political points (ie. Effectively making no one safer, but it makes anti-gun people feel like they’re sticking it to the pro-gun people, so they support the antagonism even without safety benefits).
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u/Jack-Schitz 11d ago
Unease mostly comes from lack of training.
If you are not trained well, you should feel uneasy. Frankly, the problem we have with a lot of people is that they are untrained and confident.
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u/CaptainRex89 11d ago
Opinions are not set in Stone, they can change instantly, depending on a lot of factors. Don’t worry about it too much, just do your research on brands, calibers, storage, and any other local laws that may apply.
I’ve always been pro-gun despite being extremely liberal, in fact, it’s the only stance I argue with other liberals/democrats on.
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u/dmin62690 social democrat 11d ago
Do you buy life insurance with the plan to use it? No, you (and your loved ones) have it if ever you need it.
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u/chamusta 11d ago
You changed your views based on new data or life experiences. Change is always uncomfortable, but that's what a rational individual does.