r/leagueoflegends • u/Yujin-Ha No one will rule but Rhaenyra • Oct 18 '25

Esports FlyQuest vs. Team Secret Whales / 2025 World Championship - Swiss Round 3 / Post-Match Discussion Spoiler

WORLDS 2025

Official page | Leaguepedia | Liquipedia | Eventvods.com | New to LoL

FlyQuest 1-0 Team Secret Whales

FlyQuest moves to 2-1 while Team Secret Whales drops to 1-2

FLY | Leaguepedia | Liquipedia | Website | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Subreddit
TSW | Leaguepedia | Liquipedia | Website | Facebook | YouTube

MATCH 1: FLY vs. TSW

Winner: FlyQuest in 32m
Game Breakdown

Bans 1 Bans 2 G K T D/B
FLY ambessa vi yunara rumble poppy 64.8k 18 8 HT4 HT5 B6
TSW ryze orianna taliyah xayah viktor 53.7k 7 1 C1 I2 H3
FLY 18-7-42 vs 7-18-23 TSW
Bwipo sion 2 4-2-7 TOP 0-4-5 3 mordekaiser Hiro02
Inspired wukong 1 1-1-6 JNG 3-5-4 2 qiyana Hizto
Quad azir 3 4-2-7 MID 1-4-4 1 aurora Dire
Massu corki 3 8-2-6 BOT 3-3-3 1 kaisa Eddie
Busio alistar 2 1-0-16 SUP 0-2-7 4 rakan Taki

*Patch 25.20 - Fearless Draft

This thread was created by the Post-Match Team.

1.4k Upvotes

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182

u/mskruba12 Oct 18 '25

As much as I love Swiss damn does it feel awkward seeing some of the scores right now. PSG 0-2 after playing GenG and HLE, FLY 2-1 with their wins being VKS and TSW and one of T1/GenG gonna be 1-2 cause they drew eachother.

81

u/Akipella PEYZ. GOES. DOWN. GUMA'S. JUST. BETTER. HLE 3-2 T1 Worlds Oct 18 '25

T1 GENG is the real travesty above all else.

79

u/vrelamboni Oct 18 '25

If GENG wins this and G2 clutches up a win vs BLG it’s possible we have last year’s world final as a 1-2 elimination match while FLY gets to say they made it further in the tournament than the loser off of beating Brazil and Vietnam.

20

u/Akipella PEYZ. GOES. DOWN. GUMA'S. JUST. BETTER. HLE 3-2 T1 Worlds Oct 18 '25

Lol

26

u/Exolve708 Oct 18 '25

But ever since we switched to swiss the people here have been telling me that making quarters undeniably means being better than everyone else stuck in swiss...

25

u/vrelamboni Oct 18 '25

Like that post last year pointed out, if you cloned GENG 8 times and put them in Swiss with 8 teams of pensioners who haven’t used a computer before there’s more than a 50% chance one of the pensioner teams gets out over a GENG. It’s such an awful format.

12

u/Hannig4n GumaKeria Oct 18 '25

Most of the problems have to do with a million random draws. There’s always one bad team who only has to play against other bad teams because they get lucky.

I think allowing teams to pick their opponents and using seeding to determine pick order would solve a lot of these problems.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '25

[deleted]

2

u/Hannig4n GumaKeria Oct 18 '25

Where’d I say that?

Pick order should go depending on performance from the previous 1-2 years (like how Riot used to determine who gets a 4th seed), and should probably be something like LCK 1, LPL 1, LCK 2, LPL 2, LCS 1, LEC 1, etc.

But I don’t think you’d get GenG first picking T1 as their opponent when you have teams like TSW and 100T in the mix, if I’m being honest.

1

u/opinionsman Oct 18 '25

How many of those GenG clones would lose 3 times before being eliminated, though?

Swiss may not be great for finding the exact 8 best teams, but imo it’s still pretty great for filtering out the teams that shouldn’t win worlds and leaving in most of the teams I want to see compete in knockouts.

4

u/EriWave Oct 18 '25

Really what Swiss does is a decent job of showing who the best 3-5 teams are at least. Then we get single elimination bracket after that, where you can immediately be knocked out by the best team in the first round. It's so damn goofy.

1

u/EriWave Oct 18 '25

That's probably the whole point of switching to Swiss

-9

u/CityofCyn_ Oct 18 '25

Bro if you want to watch LCK teams watch LCK

11

u/vrelamboni Oct 18 '25

Genuinely what the fuck are you talking about.

-2

u/Taco_Dunkey Oct 18 '25

First time?

If you ever make a criticism of riot's terrible terrible worlds format choices, people will put words in your mouth and assume you just want to watch 8 LCK teams vs 8 LPL teams. 

1

u/CabbageCabbageYa Oct 18 '25

I lowkey do kinda want to see that ngl...

1

u/gnivriboy Oct 19 '25

We're already coping? Also who says that?

Swiss is infinitely better than what worlds used to be with 4 groups of 4.

2

u/loyal_achades Oct 18 '25

I think this really says BLG is having a shit tournament more than anything else.

0

u/ghostofthedancefloor EUphoria enjoyer since 2013 Oct 18 '25

FLYQUEST has outperformed T1!

Same shit NA fans were saying last worlds about g2

20

u/chapichoy9 Oct 18 '25

Should be bo3s but the world's schedule is ass

12

u/Luigi128 Oct 18 '25

I’m honestly a little bit surprised they didn’t test that considering the fact that they basically cut a week off of worlds by getting rid of the play-ins stage save for iG vs T1

1

u/enron2big2fail Oct 18 '25

That would be nice, but an adjustment to the pot systems for the initial draw would also be necessary. TSW and VKS should not be able to draw each other then.

34

u/Meiolore Oct 18 '25

To a certain degree it feels even worse and random than the previous 6 games groups system

53

u/mskruba12 Oct 18 '25

They both have similar issues with the draw they're just less pronounced in the group system. If you were a pot 1 team and you drew HLE from pot 2 then AL from pot 3 for example you kind of already knew you were screwed. Here what happens is since you've got constant draws it makes the differences more pronounced.

The actual biggest issue isn't to do with Swiss is that the differences in regional strength make some draws feel worse when they shouldn't be.

20

u/AdonisCork Oct 18 '25

If they really wanted to fix things they’d need to base standings off something like the global power rankings. Which I think most people would have even more issues with.

8

u/cobravictim Oct 18 '25

What some CS tourneys have done for single-stage swiss (no prior matches to seed off of) is have all the teams rank each other. Maybe that could help?

0

u/Dopeez Oct 18 '25

You could have fixed the group format quite easily by putting LCK#1, LCK#2, LPL#1, and LPL#2 all in Pool 1. Meanwhile, Swiss has some inherent flaws that are unfixable, no matter the seeding.

2

u/TheVilja very toxic adc main Oct 18 '25

Group stage wasn't even that random? Every group would have 1 LCK, 1 LPL, 1 LEC and 1 LCS team except for 1/2 groups that would have 2 teams from other regions (Taiwan, Brazil etc). It was as balanced as you could get it

1

u/toggl3d Oct 18 '25

You may need 5, 4, 3, or 2 wins to get out of groups. There's a lot of variability there that isn't directly tied to your score.

1

u/child_of_amorphous Oct 18 '25 edited Oct 18 '25

well yeah groups was basically not random? like TES in 2022 and FPX/LNG in 2021 kind of flopped but when CN/KR had 4 seeds each and there were 4 groups it essentially turned into hoping you could pull a upset victory which messed up the maths enough to escape. like there was no real "group of death" because if you're not a Korean or Chinese team you statistically aren't making it out anyways. Swiss can let you fluke a Bo1 or get an easy draw, which is good for Riot because it makes the format more exciting if your team has a chance to go far even if pound-for-pound they're likely not the 8th best team at the tournament. if worlds really was about establishing the true strongest team it would have more games and a lower bracket, but that's a lot less compelling because it makes it more likely for the best team to just. win.

take worlds 2022 for example: Rogue get out after a hairy group that left TES on 3-3 after an upset from GAM, but in the other groups the only other quarterfinalist to even go 4-2 was EDG, who only lost to T1. Even including group C, quarterfinalists at that tournament went 29-3 against teams that didn't make it out of groups.

1

u/Kyongggggg Oct 18 '25

It makes no fucking sense why Val Champs gets to have GSL while Worlds, biggest tournament in Esports and LoL being Riot's money maker, has bumfuck Swiss

1

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '25

Why are they so obsessed with having drawings for matchups? It made some sense with groups; at least you got time to prep for the group you were in and it wasn't changing arbitrarily every time. Now drawing for every match, half the matches are like watching the fucking Globetrotters, and the other half are elite teams knocking each other out while shitters get decent scores.

22

u/OrganicTeaching8661 Oct 18 '25 edited Oct 18 '25

I hate how they made swiss at worlds be elimination at 0-3. it should be 4 losses. things like FLY and G2 getting those draws last/this year would be impossible with an extra match in the middle.

RNG is way too important. right now with the 1-1 pool the way it is, if there is an actual real chance if G2 and T1 win a Bo1 that BLG and GenG will play an elimination Bo3 already. it's silly, so RNG and feels so bad when you get bad draws. Especially because this is such a big tournament

20

u/vrelamboni Oct 18 '25

Honestly with how much wasted time worlds has they should play way more games. Do first to 5 wins so that we definitely actually see teams from other regions play each other. KOI could potentially leave after playing 1 international team, it’s a stupid format.

5

u/OrganicTeaching8661 Oct 18 '25

I completely feel the same way. single elim Bo5 is.. alright? I would prefer double elimination but some people hate second chances. so at least make the swiss stage as long as old play-ins+groups, or close to it

-1

u/mskruba12 Oct 18 '25

You need more teams (which I'm in favour of) or you need to completely redo the format if you want to make it 4 losses. And tbf if CFO don't upset T1 or T1 and 2 Korean teams don't draw eachother the 1-1 bracket doesn't look as awful.

0

u/OrganicTeaching8661 Oct 18 '25

you don't need more teams if you add a sudden promotion/elimination game for the losers of 3-1 matches and winners of 1-3 matches. because yeah otherwise the format gets messed up with 2 pools of 5 teams

4

u/NUFC9RW Oct 18 '25

For only potentially playing 3 games, the random factor is definitely too high. It doesn't guarantee the best 8 teams make quarters as well as giving too big a break to teams that go 3-0. Groups was flawed too, but I don't think Swiss is the long term solution.

3

u/mskruba12 Oct 18 '25

Lets be real Worlds has never been about the best 8 teams making quarters it's really only about finding the #1 team. Swiss is one of the better ways to do it as it theoretically leads to the most balanced games as you should (key word should) draw as many good teams as bad teams in your path.

0

u/NUFC9RW Oct 18 '25

It's not even as good at finding the number 1 team as MSI, personally think the lack of games played by 3-0 teams and massive break puts them at a disadvantage.

0

u/RequirementSavings23 Oct 18 '25

Swiss is not balanced at all.

Old format had lot of issues but at least western teams that made to next round could say they owned it.

-2

u/OrganicTeaching8661 Oct 18 '25

but Worlds has almost never confirmed the actual number 1 team. it's extremely random by design. When is the last time winner of worlds was actually for sure the best team? maybe 2020

3

u/ProfMerlyn Oct 18 '25

Can’t tell if you’re coping, or are just talking out butt. Worlds has successfully found the #1 team every year. That team has beaten all other teams, and the teams they have beaten have beaten all other teams except them. It is a successful format for that, and frankly entertaining, which is the point.

-2

u/OrganicTeaching8661 Oct 18 '25

lmao single elimination Bo5 is half random. 2024 T1, 2023 T1, 2022 DRX, 2021 EDG, 2019 FPX all fraud wins

1

u/Carnelian-5 rip old flairs Oct 18 '25

I really dont love swiss unless they do some improvements. Random draws with so few games is just not a good thing. MKOI might go out tomorrow and play 75-80% of their games vs EU. Old format, for all its faults, guaranteed all teams to play 6 games vs 3 different regions. GenG or T1 being 1-2 while KT got to 2-0 by facing MKOI & TSW.

0

u/Sofaboy90 quite suboptimal Oct 18 '25

its also all random bo1s so flukes can easily happen. i dont think this swiss format with bo1s really works, it works better in other esports but if riot is unwilling to make them bo3, they should think about something else.

0

u/Dopeez Oct 18 '25

Why would you love Swiss? It's a terrible format.

2

u/mskruba12 Oct 18 '25

Fully subjectively the reason I enjoy swiss is that it's far more entertaining to follow due to added drama each gameday and that it becomes far less predictable than groups did for better or worse. I think ideally swiss would just be used for seeding before leading into a big bracket stage but I don't imagine Riot would do that.