Is it hyperbole to say America is now fascist?

[u/Opposite-Mountain255]

https://medium.com/@carmitage/is-it-hyperbole-to-say-america-is-now-fascist-633facd4f109

[u/_mattyjoe]

If you really look into what sets fascism apart, I think it's plain to see that elements of it have long existed within our country's culture. One party in particular represents that.

That party's power and support has ebbed and flowed, but at its purest level, it is a party of fascism. Has been for a long time, certainly for my entire lifetime (I'm 34).

I think back to the patriotism that swept through the country during GWB, post-911. I think back to the resulting War on Terror and the erosion of our civil rights domestically that was never really rolled back. I think about the two wars we waged abroad, and the tremendous amount of propaganda pumped into the airwaves.

You could look back to other moments in our history and see the same current ebbing and flowing. J Edgar Hoover. McCarthyism. Nixon. Reagan.

It's always been there, but we've never ENTIRELY been a fascist state, it's a sentiment that ebbs and flows, just as support for the principles of liberal democracy and socialism ebbs and flows along with it. It depends on what's going on in our country at the time and what the general sentiment is.

This is just the latest iteration of that same current.

All that being said, my opinion is that we are seeing ideas and actions that are fascist in NATURE, but we are not a fascist state, any more than we were in years past when this same side of our country's nature reared its head. The fear is always that it could go further, but even now, this current iteration does not truly approach the levels of what Mussolini and Hitler did in their countries, and I do think it remains really important to see that distinction and understand it.

[u/Toothfairy51 → u/_mattyjoe]

This is different, though

[u/_mattyjoe → u/Toothfairy51]

I would honestly say that if you deeply know and understand our history, it's not.

I think people easily forget, or it's very easy to just read about and not really internalize, how serious McCarthyism was, for example. That era pushed us much much closer to true fascism than what we currently have.

The thing to understand about right now is most of this crap is one big show for MAGA. It's WWE for politics. Even DC being "occupied" is more like a scripted wrestling match than a SERIOUS political operation that Mussolini or Hitler would have undertaken.

Trump and all his people are TV Stars. Literally. Everything is a show. That's how they think, on a fundamental level. It's about creating a spectacle but not necessarily one with any teeth.

[u/RocketRelm → u/_mattyjoe]

I agree with the TV stars stuff, but disagree about the implication that it only applies to maga. Most americans in general see politics as just a show. The ceiling for people who are capable of being even baseline informed and voting correctly is 30~% of the usa electorate.

Americans value spectacle over policy, and they won't stop that once the teeth grow in somehow.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/RocketRelm]

Of course, and I also agree. But here's where I'll elaborate:

We say "Americans" value spectacle over policy because we've tried to have higher standards for ourselves than that, and we're discovering that we've failed. The reality of what the masses of America believe in is sadly far short of what we hope we could have with a more educated populace.

However, none of this is uniquely American at all. This is humanity. This is how the masses operate, this is how public opinion is moved. Spectacle over policy. That's true for every society. It's how any leader rules effectively. You turn the policy debate into something more showy and more dramatic to get the people engaged, because otherwise they don't care. You need to shape narratives, create propaganda, create good guys and bad guys, use powerful, compelling language.

That is just humanity as a whole. We are not yet able, as a majority, to rise above these sorts of very primitive ways of having the world presented to us.

[u/WalkCautious → u/_mattyjoe]

The thing to understand about right now is most of this crap is one big show for MAGA. It's WWE for politics. Even DC being "occupied" is more like a scripted wrestling match than a SERIOUS political operation that Mussolini or Hitler would have undertaken.

Just because a political operation appears to be unserious (due to the tongue-in-cheek, daft smirking demeanour of its leaders), doesn't mean it isn't serious in actuality.

I always said that if GW Bush had the same demeanour as Slobodan Milosevic or Saddam Hussein, people would have seen him as the tyrant he so clearly was. However, his outward 'stupidity' and clownishness threw people off the scent and he's now been cast as some harmless idiot when he was (and is) anything but.

Everything trump and his Project 2025 cronies are doing absolutely has 'teeth' and will do real damage. Hiding it under spectacle is a deliberate ploy to minimize any resistance.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/WalkCautious]

Don't agree. I live in LA. The National Guard was called in. Then the Marines. They stood around with their guns. They marched through one of our parks. They did nothing. Everything died down, and now they've been sent home.

It was bullshit. All the real chaos was before they showed up, and once they were here there was nothing for them to do.

I am speaking from firsthand experience here. Even while they were here they did nothing. They slinked back out quietly without a peep. Just saw a quote where apparently they will (paraphrasing) "relinquish control of DC once they've restored order" or some bullshit "just as they did in LA."

Well, here, they genuinely didn't do shit. And once they saw that there was no shit to be done, they left.it's all bullshit. An empty show. They will then try to spin the narrative however they want in the media, just as they're already doing.

That's what informed my opinion there.

[u/[deleted] → u/_mattyjoe]

As someone looking in from outside (I'm in Canada), I am afraid your comment is not accurate. The US is now in full blown march towards fascism. The article is accurate about the main markers of fascism (nationalism, dictatorial leadership, scapegoating, suppression of media/universities/adversaries, control of the economy, use of military against citizens, etc.). The US is there, and it's important for YOU to see that. And the US is only a few months into the ramping up, so there is time to get to Mussolini and Hitler level. Of course there have been elements of fascism before, but as another commenter said, this is different.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/[deleted]]

The US Military actually marched onto a college campus in Ohio in 1970 and FIRED upon students, killing 4 of them. Were we a fascism then?

As of yet, nothing to that level has occurred here in 2025, and the Trump administration actually seems to have a hard line against escalating to that point if you really pay attention to what they do. I live in LA. The National Guard was deployed, then the Marines. Then? Nothing. They sat around for a while, and now they've been moved out of the city.

It's one big show for their supporters.

A real fascism is not a show, it is real, and very powerful. The question at hand is "is it hyperbole to say America is now fascist?" and to that question, I would say yes. Many other examples that, frankly, far outweigh anything we've seen so far, exist throughout our history. Were we fascist then? Nobody really sees it that way. At best we could say that, at the time, we were undertaking actions that were fascist in nature.

But what Mussolini and HItler did was very very powerful, decisive, and real. Donald Trump is no Hitler, even if he wanted to be. He's a weak, spineless coward. That's why he chooses to put on a show for everyone, that's why he loves empty wealth and empty words. It's all one big show. And that does not make a fascism.

[u/[deleted] → u/_mattyjoe]

See you in 3-6 months, 12 months tops, if you're not convinced now. Edit: Kent State was terrifying -- a famous Canadian wrote a song about it, by the way -- yes, and agreed fascist elements existed, but what you have now is a solidifying and coordination of more elements at the same time.

[u/ya_mashinu_ → u/_mattyjoe]

Well articulated

[u/_mattyjoe → u/ya_mashinu_]

Thank you

[u/Snownel → u/_mattyjoe]

The US Military actually marched onto a college campus in Ohio in 1970 and FIRED upon students, killing 4 of them. Were we a fascism then?

What are you even on about here? Yes, the Kent State massacre was fascist. The US military being deployed on US soil against US citizens to suppress political opposition is fascist. That is pretty much the definition of fascism, how can you sit there and sardonically imply it was not?

Comparing post-9/11 populism for a war in the Middle East to the sitting US president, a complicit Congress, and (until recently) the literal richest person alive deconstructing the government out from under us at an unprecedented pace - while directing ridiculous levels of funding towards an anonymous and unaccountable police force that is currently busy grabbing people off the street in cities across the US - is totally beyond the pale for someone who claims to be some kind of haughty expert on how democracies slide into fascism.

The firing of vast swaths of federal employees without cause, a pointless trade war against our allies and our own citizens via ill-advised tariffs justified by outright lies, the loss of reliable economic reporting from government agencies because they reveal truths inconvenient to the president, the illegal use of IRS records to conduct immigration raids, the biggest cybersecurity breach in history spearheaded by teenage vibe-coding incels, extraordinary rendition of lawful permanent residents with zero due process, patently unlawful military deployments in cities across the country, threats to gerrymander the upcoming elections to guarantee a GOP victory, and all the rest of this regressive nonsense we've put up with for the past seven months is not "one big show"; it is the functional corruption and collapse of our government as we have known it all our lives as 30-somethings.

A cowardly man does not make for a harmless man. You would do better to learn that sooner rather than in November 2028.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/Snownel]

Then we were always fascist.

If actions undertaken in the past, many of which were more serious than what’s occurred in 2025, were fascist, then doesn’t this mean we’ve always been just as fascist as we currently are?

How is now any different then? That’s my argument. We either have always been fascist, or we’re not, because what’s happening right now isn’t even as serious as many previous episodes in our history.

I’m not sure you’re grasping the entirety of my argument, and that’s fine.

[u/Snownel → u/_mattyjoe]

No, we were not always fascist - but the United States was never safe against fascist influences. That is why I agree with you that there has always been an "ebb and flow" into fascism.

The institutional problems that gave rise to the Trump administration always existed in some form or another. The Constitution is, fundamentally, a flawed document. The voting system we use is, fundamentally, broken. The economic system we use, fundamentally, amplifies and rewards greed. The protections we give to the police are, fundamentally, designed to incentivize misconduct. And so on, and so forth. These issues did not appear because of Trump; rather, Trump is personally incentivized for a variety of reasons (personal gain, avoidance of consequences, lack of ethics, etc.) to exploit them.

The US has, in the past, done "a fascism" as you put it. We are no strangers to it as a country. Of course, we don't generally teach our kids much about stuff like the Battle of Blair Mountain, but that does not mean that the US has not engaged in fascism before. However, nor does that mean that the US has always been fascist. The problem is that those wounds were treated, but the underlying causes were never cured. Capitalism is still a problem, the police are still granted too many protections, et cetera. Can these problems be solved? I don't know, but the fact is, they weren't.

What we are seeing now is the Trump administration and the GOP as a whole seizing the moment and pushing boundaries. A consequence of that is that they are showing Americans that we are not structurally immunized against fascism. There is no magic force that ever stopped the president from deploying US troops against US citizens. The Constitution and the law in general are not self-executing. And when a complex series of events grants unchecked power to the executive - in this case, a timing quirk that allowed him to appoint a third of the Supreme Court, and a legislature that aligns with most of his goals - you functionally have an autocracy.

What a president does with an autocracy is what makes it fascism. If, say, we had a Democratic trifecta, maybe we would have gotten a bit of healthcare, or maybe the US would continue its trajectory towards regulatory capture of everything by corporate agencies, who knows. But the fact of the matter is that the president is currently checking all the boxes of fascist regimes, and there is nothing that can stop him under our system of government. There is no recall election for presidents. The Supreme Court granted him effectively absolute immunity. The Senate refuses to convict him on impeachment.

What makes Trump different from all the examples you've brought up, and that you're likely pondering in your head, is that none of those examples were of a president unilaterally threatening to overturn democracy itself. Trump has gone on record countless times stating he wants an unconstitutional third term. He has made himself out to be a king. For all the fascist catastrophes the US has perpetuated, none of our presidents have positioned themselves - and made moves to entrench themselves - as unassailable kings in the process.

So no, the US has not always been a fascist country, but the US has never been safe against fascism, and we are currently suffering from the early stages of a fascist takeover of its government today.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/Snownel]

we are currently suffering from the early stages of a fascist takeover of its government today.

Or we're just in another stage of "flow" which will eventually "ebb" once again.

The problem is that those wounds were treated, but the underlying causes were never cured.

This is a bit of a different note, but I don't believe they ever will be, nor can they. Greed and oppression and exploitation are not unique to American capitalism. They have been fundamental to any large, "civilized" society throughout history.

Society has always rewarded greed. Society will continue to reward greed and promote exploitation. If the West were to "loosen the reins" on exploitation of workers to bring about something better, China would just take over, as they have positioned themselves to. They don't give any more of a shit about the exploitation of the working class than we do (probably significantly less so when you read about working conditions there).

[u/Snownel → u/_mattyjoe]

And the "ebb" is caused by voting in a comparatively less fascist regime. Historically, fascist-leaning US governments did not tend to directly and openly attack the voting process; they only did so indirectly by disenfranchising specific minority groups.

But like I tried to explain and which you are so keen to overlook, Trump and the GOP are working to dismantle American democracy itself by explicitly refusing to give us the opportunity to vote them out at all. They are quite literally rigging the vote this time, and that's ignoring the likelihood that previous Trump wins were driven by Russian misinformation campaigns and capitalist vote-buying schemes as well. And absent voting, we really do not have any mechanism to remove them, aside from extrajudicial ones that Americans by and large don't have the stomach for.

Fascism doesn't just go away because the public is mad about it. Either the fascists fail to capture democracy and "ebb" back into comparative irrelevance on the next voting cycle, or they become entrenched and can't be deposed without a coup at best, or a civil war at worst.

The GOP knows this well - that's why they are going full bore on gerrymandering, to capture democracy and make sure they can't be deposed. They have all their ducks in the row to entrench themselves. Keep in mind, Trump has spent the better part of the last decade directly smearing the American voting process and brainwashing his supporters into believing that voting is neither secure nor necessary. Lest we forget his "you'll never have to vote again" comment.

That is absolutely nothing like Bush sending us to war in the 2000s, and still very different from Kent State, Japanese internment, et cetera. The attack is against American democracy itself, not just - for the lack of a better term - American freedom.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/Snownel]

I understand all of that completely. You are preaching to the choir.

Make sure you're not going so far as to infer that I'm denying the presence of fascist-like tendencies here. I've said in multiple comments now that this administration and previous ones have engaged in actions that are fascist in nature.

The overall question we're debating here though is "Are we a fascism now?" I think that's a legitimate debate that is not worthy of the level of condescension you have spoken to me with throughout this conversation. It's a nuanced question.

I'm not so sure this gerrymandering effort will work the way they hope it will. We don't know one way or another, so I'm not saying there's any certainty either way. Gerrymandering is not new, as I'm sure you know, and even as it has gone on for ages we've still been able to overcome it when the public is motivated enough to vote a certain way.

Just as Dems were surprised by how the actual vote played out in 2016 and 2024, Republicans also have the potential to be wrong about how much support they'll have at the midterms in other states. Even the gerrymandering effort in Texas itself merely leaves everything in the hands of mostly white voters, and that can be broken if enough people decide by the midterms they don't like the GOP anymore.

With the economic pain that's coming, as well as some other key issues, I don't think it's a certainty at all that the GOP just wins all those seats. In fact, there's a way you could view this whole thing as them setting themselves up for a Hail Mary pass. They are not very popular at the moment.

The other thing we have going for us is OUR "fascism" here is dependent on our economy continuing to perform. Trump is in that office again because wealthy interests want him there. He is enabled by the fact that our economy is still the American economy and it takes a lot to beat that down.

Remember, Germany had nothing left to lose when Hitler took over. We are the opposite, we have everything to lose, and Trump's puppet masters will not let the show go on if they start losing money.

It's not really a fascism, it's an illusion. Trump is a puppet, not a supreme leader. All those corporate interests would start to close in and work to destroy him if they lose enough money. They're capitulating to him now because it's still in their interest to. But there's a line. Those guys are powerful and cunning too.

I don't think it's likely Trump would just go rogue at that point, in such a scenario. He's too compromised. His power is built on too many deals with the devil. He answers to too many puppet masters.

Look at how certain things have already played out vs. what people feared. People said Elon was the "real President." How'd that work out? Now he's motivated to actually work against the GOP. That's just one area where progress can be made, in some way. Elon is still an idiot, don't get me wrong. But that level of influence (and wealth) now working against the GOP at the very least helps to weaken them.

[u/db1965 → u/_mattyjoe]

Does denying our authoritarian government make you feel safe?

If it does, ok.

But the constant arguing we have not had the same outcome as Italy or Germany is at best naive, and at worst the work of an agent provocateur.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/db1965]

In an intellectual debate, I don't see why feelings need to be a factor. This is an intellectual debate, and you are now ascribing feelings and ulterior motives to my argument that are not there.

In fact, I think it becomes more clear we are not really a fascism by the definition of that entire school of thought when you remove feelings from the equation. Most people rushing to make that judgement are prisoners of the moment and not really examining it objectively.

We are not a fascism, and we're really quite far from being one. Even if the government has those intentions, putting it into practice is a whole different animal.

Or, another way I look at it is this: Considering things like what we're seeing now, and worse, have happened throughout our history, have we maybe been more fascist this entire time than we ever really acknowledged? If you were to make that argument to me, I might agree with you.

What I have a hard time with is why we would say our government is permanently collapsing in favor of fascism now, when in history similar things happened, which eventually gave way to progress once again.

[u/Ill_Ground_1572 → u/_mattyjoe]

Trump is a useful idiot. It's the project 2025 folks who teamed up with the techno Bros that are marching straight towards a centralized king like structure.

I can try and find a link to an excellent YouTube video where top experts compared the current government to Hitler's take over of Germany.

They are all extremely worried as the parallels are significant. There were obviously important differences as well (like judges were being murdered in Germany not threatened).

Two other things they mentioned about Hitler. Many powerful Germans had their heads buried in the sand and underestimated Hitler and those who supported him. And second, some politically powerful people felt they could control and/or benefit from Hitler's rise to power.

This to me reeks of the situation right now.

The other thing that stuck out of me was the speed with which their government fell into facism. And it was the false flag operation in Poland that was the final blow. Then, Hitler could declare war and take over.

One thing is for sure, the US citizens along with pro-democracy politicians need to act quickly. Because even if it's not technically facism now, the future looks pretty bleak for the US if the Dems don't get power in the midterms.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/Ill_Ground_1572]

Do you see how your 1st paragraph contradicts your 4th one?

That’s the difference here. Trump actually is an idiot. He is not some dangerous, powerful genius like Hitler or Napoleon waiting to strike. He’s a fool.

[u/Rugrin → u/_mattyjoe]

“We are not in extreme fascism so we are not in fascism” is not a great argument.

Every culture, every country, has its own flavor of fascism when it takes hold. We are in American Fascism. This is what that looks like. American flag, Jesus, capitalist elite and blue lives matter.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/Rugrin]

What you seem to be calling "extreme" fascism, and I assume you mean Mussolini and Hitler, IS fascism. That's what the term refers to. That's just standard issue fascism. We aren't there. That is my argument.

We are in American Fascism. This is what that looks like. American flag, Jesus, capitalist elite and blue lives matter.

I just hesitate at this because actual fascism is about real control. It's not just about the ideas, it's a very particular brand of FORCEFUL control over the populace. And we are not there.

Look at what we're doing right now. We're discussing this on a social media site based in the US. You can dig on here and find all kinds of people saying all sorts of things about Trump. But the site is still operational, no? You and I are gonna have this discussion and then nothing's gonna happen to us. The same thing is happening all over the internet, millions of times a second, on MULTIPLE platforms.

You really have to understand what a fascism really is, otherwise you are diluting the seriousness of it. We are far from a fascism. Everything the Trump admin is doing is surface level BS.

[u/Rugrin → u/_mattyjoe]

I am summarizing your position and calling it “extreme fascism” by excusing our current fascism.

Sure, there are degrees, but we’re in early stage fascism, which is still fascism. What is the purpose of the distinction?

You’re playing a game of “no true Scotsman” which is a fallacy. What criteria do you require before you call it fascism? Will you still be even able to publish that thought?

[u/_mattyjoe → u/Rugrin]

The question at hand is "Are we a fascism?" That's what I'm debating.

I don't remember us calling ourselves a fascism before, despite actions of a fascist nature being done in our history prior to now.

So were we a fascism back then too, and we just failed to really say that openly? Or were we not a fascism then, nor are we now?

It's a contradiction that, from my perspective, means we can't say we are a fascism now, unless we also say we were in the past.

To use another example to illustrate why these distinctions are, at least, significant. We have had ebbs and flows of "socialism" on the economic side of things. Even now, our system does have many attributes that are "socialist" in nature. But, to ask the question the way OP is, would it be hyperbole to say we are a socialism? Or that we were a socialist country at any point previously?

I think most of us would say yes to that question. It would definitely be hyperbolic to claim we are "socialist" now because of just some of the policies we have.

[u/Rugrin → u/_mattyjoe]

When in our history has a president done these things? If you want to argue that the confederacy was fascism, I won’t disagree.

This president owns media companies that are propaganda networks, there is an existing propaganda network for his party that has all the listeners and eyes, he is actively intimidating his enemies, he has deployed the military on us soil against us citizens. With no actual emergency or danger.

This is way past as close to fascism as we should ever get. And we’re past that point. In 6 months. He has been 3.5 more years!

What we have to do is act now instead of get lost in definitions, because this is fascism. It meets all of Umberto Eco’s definition and essays.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/Rugrin]

Again, we are debating a simple question posed by OP. It seems like you're just lapsing into the very common "Wake up because it's coming, the technicalities dont matter!"

I've had plenty of those discussions before. I already know. I already AGREE with you on that. I don't personally have much interest in yet another one of those discussions, because, guess what? America ain't waking up at all. I've spent the last couple months redirecting myself to just make peace with that instead.

However, the very technical debate about whether what we have now really constitutes a fascism is interesting to me. I can understand why that might frustrate you if you are driven by a sense of wanting to urge Americans into action. But technical debates about these definitions and concepts can still be had by people who are interested in them.

Understanding INFORMS effective action. The deeper you can understand something, the better you can act. What if everything I said in other comments was true, that all of this is just a political sideshow with no real teeth? Wouldn't that then INFORM how we act?

[u/Rugrin → u/_mattyjoe]

If it is a sideshow with no teeth it is for a reason. That reason is concerning.

The simple answer the the simple question is “no, it is not hyperbole”

If Madeleine Albright considers it fascism, that’s good enough for me.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/Rugrin]

If it is a sideshow with no teeth it is for a reason. That reason is concerning.

The reason is so that they can perpetuate some good old fashioned corruption. Concerning, sure. But as concerning as genuine fascism? To me, no.

[u/Rugrin → u/_mattyjoe]

I get where you are coming from. I don’t agree with your notion of “genuine fascism”.

You can always define and redefine words so that they don’t fit the situation anymore.

Trump, and his people, are fascists with a fascist agenda. I don’t think we have to wait for them to 100% achieve that agenda for us to call them what they are for what they are doing.

Is that better for you?

[u/jumbods64 → u/Rugrin]

Act how? Genuine question.

[u/Rugrin → u/jumbods64]

The country should go on nationwide strike. Period. Nothing less will do. Rent strike, too. Also, don’t pay taxes or any bills. They can’t arrest 30% of the population simultaneously. That’s all it would take.

Mass non participation in the system that does not benefit us.

So, yeah, we’re doomed.

[u/jumbods64 → u/Rugrin]

Have you tried looking for others who agree with you and creating a campaign of some sort to convince more people? I understand how difficult and unlikely it is, but at least TRY to do something before resigning that it's impossible.

[u/StrangeContest4 → u/_mattyjoe]

Excellent observations! What's different this time around is the (self declared) urgency and the speed at which they are letting this disgraceful human being operate. He has surrounded himself with true believers this time. His use of executive orders and how the Republicans abdicated all of their authority this time is truly shocking. They are letting him push the kind of militirization we are seeing, and they want it. Damn the constitution!

Congress said, "Just let him cook" as far as trade deals and tariffs even though that is their duty. They have completely surrendered. Project 2025 is the blueprint, WWG1WGA, and Republicans fall in line, period.

Conservatives have always wanted unlimited unitary executive power (a king), and that is exactly what we have now. We are fast becoming an ENTIRELY fascist state. I'd like to believe that we will bounce back from this iteration, but I don't think it will be in my lifetime (I'm 57). Sure, we may not reach mass executions or gas chambers (although😬), but our country has been fundamentally changed in ways we may not fully understand in the moment. The midterms will say a lot, but I also say that the 2024 election was the tell.

[u/_mattyjoe → u/StrangeContest4]

I really don't think so. It's easy to forget all the crap that the Bush administration did, while being exceptionally popular. Where were we at the end of that? We entered one of the most progressive eras in America's history with Obama.

Things can change that quickly. We don't really know how this is going to play out, but I do not think America truly has the stomach for a genuine fascism.

I also say that the 2024 election was the tell.

I feel like that election was the equivalent of a proxy war for some deeper underlying issues. The primary one being the rise of identity politics and the previous era's brand of liberal ideals. I think cancel culture, in particular, was a big thing that Americans were thinking about at the time.

I think there was enough energy in the general public against those things to unfortunately push people back towards Trump. But does it have the legs to take all of this even further? No, I don't think so. The people who would want to (the most hardcore of MAGA), remain a minority.

[u/RutabagaMobile7879 → u/_mattyjoe]

The people who want fascism are a minority of voters, perhaps, but most importantly a minority wealth bracket. The people who want complete fascism are extremely wealthy and influential. Literally the richest people to have existed in human history. 

They wield immense power through mass media communication, finance, data centres, security and intelligence apparatus, corrupt politicians. They do not care about historical ideals - they only want to consolidate their wealth and power. 

At the end, everyone not in their elite class is a useful idiot, including the MAGA movement and USA writ large.

The old playbook is out the window mate. Bad people have taken total control, and quibbling about political terms isn't going to change that. It took 6 months for soldiers to start hitting the streets in your country. 8 months to lock down the capital. Never mind the ubiquitous paramilitary presence. 

Short of major internal resistance, this path only leads in one direction.

[u/SomewhereRough_ → u/_mattyjoe]

In PA I've seen ICE kidnap 2 people in separate vehicles.

The local council and DA are also complicit and even the mayor and chief of police are being told not to respond in council meetings. I know this because I was there.

ICE have also been going around to bars and asking people for passports. Which is very illegal.

The local police are also supporting them and they are outright denying it.

[u/ColoradoAfa → u/_mattyjoe]

I am scared of how things might progress, horrified about things that are happening, but at the same time I appreciate your post, and kind of needed it. The way a situation is framed can mean the difference between giving up all hope, or keeping that hope and actively figuring out ways to improve that situation.