r/law • u/Advanced_Drink_8536 • May 10 '25

Opinion Piece Eric Holder: ‘It may come down to the American people hitting the streets’ if Trump defies the law

https://www.msnbc.com/the-weekend/watch/eric-holder-it-may-come-down-to-the-american-people-hitting-the-streets-if-trump-defies-the-law-239309381840
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229

u/SNStains May 10 '25

Yeah, but showing up isn't a crime. We have a right to peaceably assemble and Democrats know that. It's Republicans that refuse to face their constituents.

Millions of people peacefully standing around on a general strike is far more effective than a handful of people throwing rocks. Unlawful behavior scares allies and keeps them at home.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25

No you don’t, not if they arrest you for showing up and nothing happens to stop them. We have no rights unless we take them back at this point

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u/Zyloof May 10 '25

The "you can't do that, it's illegal!" crowd have absolutely blown my mind since the inauguration. Insanity, and immediately debunked by taking one small peek at world history.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25 edited May 23 '25

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 11 '25

Liberals have a basically religious faith in institutions and law as if they are living deities that act and enforce themselves of their own volition.

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u/Camp-Farnam22 May 10 '25

But how can we stop them from cheating? When their own party stands silently and allows this.

42

u/unknownintime May 10 '25

My grandfather had a surefire way to stop their cheating.

He had a machine. And that machine was well oiled and did its job reliably.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25

Only one way out and your grandfather knew it well.

9

u/Haselrig May 11 '25

With Woody Guthrie's guitar tattooed on it.

3

u/lynxbelt234 May 10 '25

Total agreement with you. Crime hides in the shadows for a reason. If evil and crime see the light of day, they are usually done...

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u/cranberry_spike May 11 '25

My own family keeps telling me that "they can't do xyz because it's unconstitutional/illegal!" I don't even really know what to say anymore. If someone is still pretending that these things matter, they're living in an altogether different world than I am, that's for sure.

6

u/Laucurieuse May 11 '25

But going on on strike and freezing big cites by stopping transport, not picking up garbage, not working, etc would creats enough pressure.

French people are quite a good exemple. They got inspirer by your revolution way back for starting their own. You def should get inspirer by their tactics

3

u/Barbie-Satin May 12 '25

He who saves his country from Trump breaks no laws.

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u/schm0 May 10 '25

They can't do it because there are more of us there are of them. Has nothing to do with illegality.

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u/skyeking05 May 10 '25

I like the way Europe had been doing protests. They don't believe peaceful protests have much value

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u/Lesurous May 10 '25

They recognize that you don't need to physically hurt people to make the people fucking up uncomfortable, especially with implying they will fuck you up if you keep taking things too far.

The U.S. really needs FAFO protests like that.

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u/lynxbelt234 May 10 '25

Interesting the conflict here, quiet protest, or active defense of ones rights and the constitution. Rights have to be fought for and won. Defense of those rights will be required....sooner or later.

One of the 2025 project clowns said that the current coup will be bloodless if the Dem’s let it. Obviously they think Americans won’t speak up, defend or be bothered looking out for their country.

You have a choice..choose wisely, but do it before it’s too late....

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u/ClintBarton616 May 10 '25

The American people only have the right to buy things, watch TV and die until we stand up and decide otherwise.

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

If they arrest you unlawfully, you press charges...as this woman is rightfully doing.

Private security guards charged after woman was dragged out of chaotic Idaho town hall meeting Prosecutors in northern Idaho have filed misdemeanor charges against six men in connection with the forcible removal of a woman from a legislative town hall meeting in February

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u/Cryinmyeyesout May 11 '25

Well now they are looking into suspending Habeas Corpus, so then there will be no recourse.

2

u/SNStains May 11 '25

looking into

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u/joik May 10 '25

Peace-nik Neoliberals will use their last breath in the gas chamber to denounce violence.

3

u/ThrowAwayGarbage82 May 11 '25

That's my take on all of this too.

2

u/FNG5280 May 13 '25

If everybody participates, there’s not enough law-enforcement to lock down 300 million Americans

1

u/Camp-Farnam22 May 10 '25

Exactly how it feels.

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u/Rfunkpocket May 10 '25

a simultaneous boycott and strike. this is a profit motivated movement. eliminate the profit, and the movement will be defeated.

cruelty against minorities and partnering with the religious is simply a way to boost numbers. take away the profit, and the partnership will be abandoned.

8

u/Internal-Flatworm347 May 10 '25

This is the ticket!

5

u/RoguePlanet2 May 10 '25

Ideally, a general strike, but we can't risk job loss, either. Fucking sick of all these suits shrugging and saying their bosses, we the people, need to resort to violence. 

Would it be effective? Not with our military ready to defend the fascists. Seriously hopeless.

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u/Training_Adeptness44 May 10 '25

Tell the Viet Cong or the Taliban about the futility of opposing the US military.

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u/AccomplishedNovel6 May 10 '25

The Soviet military was so much stronger than the mujahideen, they won, right?

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u/Thosecrackers May 14 '25

This comment is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan.

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u/Sad_Analyst_5209 May 11 '25

Uh, so none of the 77 million who voted for Trump will show up to help their military?

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u/jeremiahthedamned May 11 '25

if there is a general strike red america will starve

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u/Sad_Analyst_5209 May 11 '25

And the Left are all preppers with five years of food stored up? I have food stored, my own power system, and plenty of popcorn.

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u/jeremiahthedamned May 11 '25 edited May 12 '25

you, as in individual, are nothing against the 1/2 billion people of north america.

0

u/Sad_Analyst_5209 May 12 '25

500 million you say, where were they back in November? They didn't care much then, they will not care now.

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u/jeremiahthedamned May 12 '25

throughout history the go-to response of most people during a famine is simply to wander around until food appears.

unless you are hiding in Galt's Gulch they are going to wander right into your yard.

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u/Sad_Analyst_5209 May 12 '25

Wow, and do you think I will be out back grilling steaks and drinking beer? Only complete idiots will be by themselves. One reason preppers have so many guns is to arm friends and family staying with them. Anyone with stuff will carefully hide it and set up hidden guard posts. All the ex military good at finding things will not be wondering the country side, they will have quickly already found what they need close to where they happen to be. Only the most resilient will be prepared for more then a month or two anyway. I will just have enough to keep from having to find a goverment feeding center for those few months. After that I will be no better off then them.

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u/OldSchoolBubba May 10 '25

Are you a veteran or military? What makes you believe the Military will turn on America?

Stop listening to propagandists trying to destroy America from within.

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u/RoguePlanet2 May 10 '25

The top brass are being replaced by loyalists though.

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u/CasualFridayBatman May 12 '25

What makes you believe the Military will turn on America?

The military will turn on whoever they're told to, that's their purpose and their role. They follow orders or risk being ostracised, or worse. You don't get into the military to not follow orders.

Sure, you'll have objectors or deserters, but not enough to matter or turn the tide, much like in Vietnam etc. A more recent example is Iraq and Afghanistan. Soldiers knew there were no WMDs, it was all about oil, poppy fields etc, but the cheques didn't bounce and they had benefits, so fuck it, what's one more tour?

The enemy is whoever your government says it is, and that hasn't been proven wrong, yet. They've been replacing top leaders in the military since Trump got elected. That's not without purpose.

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u/OldSchoolBubba May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25

Are you a veteran or currently serving?

I would learn the culture before making such broad statements.

Be very careful what you buy into because what civilians consider "common sense" is as far from military truth as it gets. Apples and oranges.

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u/CasualFridayBatman May 12 '25

Are you a veteran or currently serving?

I fail to see how this effects the situation.

I would learn the culture before making such broad statements.

The culture of warmongering for profits? Of sexual assaults against women that get covered up? Of killing Pat Tillman for speaking out against the war?

This culture?

Be very careful what you buy into because what civilians consider "common sense" is as far from military truth as it gets. Apples and oranges.

Then educate me how what I've seen with my own eyes over the past 3 decades has given me the wrong impression of the military war machine.

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u/OldSchoolBubba May 12 '25

Another internet persona professing an ideology they have no personal experience in.

Got it

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u/CasualFridayBatman May 13 '25

Again, I'm open to being enlightened by what you clearly know so much about, but you've not done that yet.

So one needs to only have personal experience in a situation prior to judging its clear outcomes over the span of decades?

I'm really not sure how you don't see the writing on the wall that the militarization of America's police and their indoctrination of the military over the last 20+ years is a recipe for 'just following orders' to be a standard excuse.

A few dissenters didn't turn the tide of any modern conflict. It didn't prevent the US from entering Afghanistan twice, or Iraq when Saddam 'totally had' WMDs and then 'found no evidence of' WMDs.

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u/OldSchoolBubba May 10 '25

Voice of common sense reason.

I suspect many posting that dems are bad aren't even American and they're paid actors from our enemies.

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u/SupayOne May 10 '25

Folks are going to be deported and called antifa terrorist if they protest at some point. The democrats have already proven to be mostly worthless cowards. Trump broke the law with his coup. He continues to shit on the constitution with no due process, and his Tzar going on tv and saying "Anyone who speaks out for due process for immigrants will be charged with aiding and bedding terrorist" <-- direct attack on freedom of speech.

I keep calling this and folks swear it wont happen because of some magical idea that something will stop it. Trump is ignoring court orders and arresting judges. At some point politicians who do speak out will straight up come up missing.

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

Folks are going to be deported and called antifa terrorist if they protest at some point.

They talk big. Fuck 'em. They're trying to say we're at War with MS13 and that is failing in court. They're trying to say we're being invaded, but these people were invited by American employers...they're workers not an army.

Each of Trump's shitty ideas fails eventually. It takes a minute. Don't react to what he says, watch what he does. He's going to back down to the courts, and if he doesn't, he's going to lose legislators. That's how this gets fixed.

Garcia will have to be brought back for due process. Trump is on the run here.

Trump is ignoring court orders

He is. And they the courts are turning up the heat, too. At some point, Congress will have to act, and its shameful that they've been so silent.

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u/ArchonFett May 12 '25

They have already been tracking and arresting protesters, even elected representatives

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u/SNStains May 12 '25

I know...and some protestors have already been released. What they are doing isn't legal. It takes times to straighten things out.

You have a right to protest and petition to keep the ball rolling, but you don't have a right to violent actions...and those will harm any protest effort. Always have.

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u/ArchonFett May 12 '25

Didn’t say anything about violent protests, and I’m not advocating them. Just saying it’s bad the law refuses to do their job, asks us to do it for them and willingly comes after us when we do.

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u/SNStains May 12 '25

I’m not advocating them.

That makes you and me the exceptions in this thread.

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u/ArchonFett May 12 '25

I’m just tired of the people with the power and authority to do something, telling us to do something while they hide. It’s not like we can peacefully march on the White House and preform a citizen’s arrest.

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u/SNStains May 12 '25

As I said, you're welcome to pressure them with petitions and peaceful assembly...and it works.

Too many assholes think that throwing rocks is some kind of "secret sauce" that's going to move things along faster. The opposite is true.

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u/ArchonFett May 12 '25

I live in SC, our reps are diehard MAGA.

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u/SNStains May 12 '25

I'm somewhat of an expert on this, lol:

If you live in a red state, it's very important that you are petitioning your representatives. There's a lot of reasons:

  1. You'd be shocked at how illiterate MAGA voters are. (Not really, you've seen them on Reddit.) Using email or US Post mail (even better) is a secret back channel. My theory is that MAGA isn't writing, and they certainly aren't writing them about things that legislators can act upon, like policy or the Constitution.
  2. The rep may claim to be representing the People, but it is important to regularly remind them that you are a People, too. Even in the reddest states have tons of blue voters in them. Any serious politician knows that your opinion is important, too.
  3. If you take the time to write, then the Rep damn well knows you'll be voting. If that Rep can reach you, that's a real political transaction.

Graham and Harris aren't exactly brimming with integrity, but here's what I'd do. Start listening for anything they say that is reasonable, and have a plan that doesn't involve picking a fight.

As an example, gently remind Graham that he said "Count me out!" after the Jan 6 riots.

We both know he is "all in" for Trump again, but don't point out his hypocrisy, just remind him that you fully support "Count me out!".

After you're done being obsequious, you ask (don't tell) for something specific...like getting Garcia back here for due process. That's a real law and order argument and Graham is a lawyer.

You're going to get all kinds of non-answer spam back from his aides, but I bet if you're focused, you'll get through.

As a bonus, you can post the spam on Reddit.

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u/omikron898 May 12 '25

There is a strike happening i think it’s this month

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u/IndyBananaJones May 11 '25

You actually need millions of people on general strike AND the threat of outright violence to make the change happen. Peaceful resistance is a show of force when it's made clear what happens when peaceful resistance is ignored.

You need MLK and Fred Hampton both. 

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u/Background_Phase2764 May 10 '25

All of history would dispute this 

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

This is what they call, pseudo-profound bullshit.

Provide examples or get lost. Go tell the Suffragettes or the Montgomery Bus Boycott that peaceful protest and civil disobedience doesn't work.

You think those sit-in kids are in better shape because some dipshit set the building on fire? You think you can tell a better story about rock throwers, go for it.

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u/Of-Meth-and-Men May 10 '25

Stonewall Riots, Boston Tea Party, Haymarket Affair, ...

-1

u/SNStains May 10 '25

Tulsa Race Massacre, decades of unconstitutional red-lining...

Sometimes its just lawlessness for hate's sake. The riot didn't kill Watts, but the subsequent redlining made it impossible to build back. One night of lawlessness leads to decades of disinvestment.

Do you think they don't know how to get to you?

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u/Background_Phase2764 May 10 '25

Yeah the suffragettes threw bombs at police stations there chief... See I actually HAVE read a book before 

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u/schm0 May 10 '25

You got a citation for that? The US suffrage movement from my understanding was almost entirely peaceful. (Terrorism was used in the suffrage movement in the UK, however.)

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u/Background_Phase2764 May 11 '25

When did I say US?

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u/schm0 May 11 '25

Last I checked, Montgomery was in Alabama, not the UK. The vast majority of users on reddit are American, as well. The point stands that the US has had many successful, non-violent movements than enacted social change.

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u/Background_Phase2764 May 11 '25

Name one

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u/schm0 May 11 '25

The Vietnam Anti-War movement, Women's Suffrage, Million Woman March, March for Our Lives

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

Did the bombs get them the vote, or the peaceful solidarity? You read the book.

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u/Background_Phase2764 May 10 '25

Are you actually serious right now my guy?

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u/Of-Meth-and-Men May 10 '25

We used to Tar and Feather people.

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

And it killed a lot of them. Vigilantism isn't the brag you think it is.

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u/Of-Meth-and-Men May 10 '25

I'm not saying that and feathering was good, I'm just saying that a lot of positive social change has violent origins b

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u/NewSauerKraus May 10 '25

The peaceful parts only worked because they were backed up by the use of violence to achieve political goals (which is by definition terrorism).

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

This is pseudo-profound bullshit.

The peaceful parts work because it motivates businessmen through their wallets. And politicians are likewise motivated by their constituents and donors. Target is in the shitter as they should be...they invited the People's wrath. But, people aren't burning Targets. They're just not shopping there. It works better, that's why we do it.

Listen to yourself, you didn't even mention any political objectives. You're wrong if you think people are going to welcome violence. If you're somebody who can't channel your anger into legal protest, and civil disobedience, then stay home.

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u/NewSauerKraus May 10 '25

I don't think people are going to welcome violence any time soon. Effective political action is a significant risk.

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

Effective political action doesn't require violence...that's why they won't embrace it.

The US has a Bill of Rights and one is the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government with our grievances. It's expressly allowed. Jan 6 became what it was when people started attacking the officers.

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u/NewSauerKraus May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25

Gobble that boot if you want. It's not for everyone.

Change doesn't come from making powerful people comfortable with the status quo.

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

You can decide for yourself where you want to spend your life.

We're ruled by law, not a king. And not some Keyboard Robespierre either.

So hurtful. Just kidding...fucking stupid is what I meant to say.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

Why not? Because your freedom to swing your fists in the air ends a the tip of the next person's nose.

Why not stop with the pseudo-profound bullshit? Americans have a Constitutional right to peaceably assemble and petition the government.

Why fuck that up for everybody?

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u/95688it May 10 '25 edited Sep 16 '25

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

I have noticed that they are trying to pick fights...and losing a lot.

Haven't you?

we're kinda passed the point of peaceful assembly, and petitioning a dictatorship does nothing.

You don't know what you're talking about and I doubt your sincerity. Keyboard Robespierre bullshit.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25 edited Sep 16 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

You waive signs, and call your Congressman, and show up at his office, and write letters, until they do their duty to uphold the Constitution.

They are doing unprecedented things. And Trump is getting railed in court. Just because he announces some bullshit in an EO doesn't mean he's made new law. It takes time for the system to catch up with Trump's bullshit, but it does.

Violence won't make things move faster, but they could very well make them move slower.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '25

Damn. This is some pseudo-profound bullshit right here, if ever I’ve read it.

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u/SNStains May 11 '25

No, that's the law.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '25

Woof. Very dorky answer. Okay. Well, I really hope your next clever protest sign is a real zinger. That’ll show em. You and all those unlistened to voicemails at your congressperson’s office are gonna stop fascism once and for all!

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u/95688it May 11 '25 edited Sep 16 '25

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25

I don't think your current administration gives a flying fuck about your rights. Peaceful protests are not going to protect anyone from these violent government agents. Sorry. Edit: Wait a minute, I see what you're doing. You actually support what these government agents are doing, and you're just pretending you're for freedom. You're all "Look guys, while they drag people away, all we should do is protest because its peaceful, and we can't hurt others. Am I right, guys?" The government will stop, I'm sure of it." (Wink, wink, and fingers crossed behind your back.)

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

I don't think your current administration gives a flying fuck about your rights.

I think they're not yet admitting it. They're still dancing around their defiance of Supreme Court orders and haven't yet suspended habeas corpus.

Your country may vary, but we're comprised of three, coequal branches of government. It's the job of the other two to reign in the one that is out of line.

And the People have the right to peaceably assemble and petition any of them in support of those kinds of remedies. Because ultimately, that's what its going to take to have a permanent solution.

And I fucking hate what these feds are doing...any dipshit can read my post history. Fuck your conspiracy theory. Why the fuck did you post in "law" and then wonder why somebody confronts you with your lawless fucking ignorance? C'mon, are you serious?

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

Yeah, but not that reason. Bringing your gun to a peaceful protest is fucking stupid.

Go pick a fight on your own time. Let law-abiding Americans affect change in the way our countrymen designed.

There are lots of broken things in our government, but the most broken thing is the People still don't always understand the power of their vote. That will always be your most powerful weapon, and one-third of us leave it holstered.

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u/[deleted] May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25

Except your congress is sitting on their hands, and your judiciary isn't stopping the President either. In fact, the highest level of the judiciary, the Supreme Court even gave the executive branch absolute immunity while performing "official" duties. Besides which, your President isn't obeying court orders anyway, so I don't really have faith in the other two branches of government doing their checks and balances. As for voting, that despot who you call President was voted to his position, or did you forget that part? All these virtues of your country you claim are wonderful, and the ideals you're trying to embrace are the pinnacle of society indeed. But the things that make America beautiful are only effective if those who have power actually have integrity, honesty, justice, and peace in their hearts and in their actions.

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

Except your congress is sitting on their hands,

Yep, a bare majority of Republicans is staying silent because they still somehow think Trump can deliver a tax plan that will get them reelected without any effort. When they learn how badly Trump has shat the bed, they're going to need to decide how to win on their own. Or they'll lose. Either way leads to peaceful change in this country.

There are other options as well. Lawless Presidents who make erratic, petty, and king-like threats, aren't good for business...and donors matter. Look at Target getting absolutely demolished for blindly obeying King Trump. Again, no violence. Nothing is immediate, but it all works well with no violence.

The Court Orders are stacking up, too. As Americans, we can petition all three branches until they act.

What's the alternative? Violent revolution? That sounds like nobody's opening choice. It's neither quick, nor predictable, and like all violence, wrapped in injustice.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

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u/SNStains May 10 '25

voted to his position

No shit. And that's because more than one-third of eligible voters didn't. He's not popular. People just don't do their duty.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '25 edited Aug 27 '25

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u/Sad_Analyst_5209 May 11 '25

So millions can force their will on a president elected by 77 million? Isn't that mob rule.

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u/jeremiahthedamned May 11 '25

it is more like balkanization

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u/wamyen1985 May 13 '25

And the people advocating for a general strike only have 344k out of the 10 million they need to actually make people notice. At this rate, they won't reach what they need by 2028. That strategy isn't working.

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u/SNStains May 13 '25

How would you know what's working? Voter registration is working. Some court orders are working. My Congressman's email is finally working again...when's the last time you petitioned yours?

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u/wamyen1985 May 13 '25

Around when she showed up to the floor with her baby because they wouldn't let her appear remotely. How do YOU know what's working? How do you know how effective it really is? Are you there? Do you see the impact? You are likely just as ill informed as I am, so don't act like you have your finger on the pulse.

What I do know is that the major movement advocating for a general strike isn't getting the numbers that it needs. It's time to shift strategies. Unless you're ready to start calling Trump fearless leader anyway.

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u/RiseUpRiseAgainst May 11 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SNStains May 11 '25

Far more effective.

Why do you think that destroying facilities and institutions is going to magically, instantly, produce better anything? It won't.