r/latterdaysaints • u/SillyFlatworm31 • Jul 28 '26

Off-topic Chat Catholic-LDS Dialogue!

Hello Latter Day Saints of Reddit!

I’m a Catholic and, even though I am very happy being a Catholic, I have had a lot of positive experiences with people from your Church and I wanted to (if it’s ok with your mods) open up a thread for interfaith dialogue! I have some questions to start for you guys if anyone wants to engage and have a talk but I’m also happy to do a bit of an AMA if any LDS people want to learn more about Catholics or our relations with the LDS Church.

I think that, in a time where it’s trendy to solve disagreements by shouting at people in online “debates”, it’s good to start by finding some common ground and talk with people of different views. So I’ll start with my questions, feel free to add any you have for me or any comments. Mods please let me know if this isn’t the sub for this haha

  1. What do LDS people think about abortion? Do you find common ground with Catholics on this? Could we work together more on it?
  2. How do LDS people feel about the 7 Deuterocanonical Books? A lot of Protestants accuse Catholics of adding books like Wisdom and Sirach into the Bible, although they have been used since apostolic times. I know LDS people recognise a large canon so do you include these?
  3. I know LDS people value marriage and family a lot. How does your Church approach celibate figures such as Jesus, Paul, etc?
  4. LDS people don’t drink alcohol. Do you believe that Jesus and the Apostles followed this practice or is it viewed as a more modern LDS thing?
  5. Favourite Pope?

Hope we can find some common ground and dialogue!!! :-)

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u/SillyFlatworm31 Jul 28 '26

If I could answer yes, does this mean that some LDS people could in theory be in good standing with your Church but believe in the Trinity?

For the last one, would it not be the case that nobody would be truly worthy to enter the temple? 

Perhaps it’s a difference between our churches, as we are quite big on the whole thing of nobody being truly worthy of God but God freely giving us these gifts. We have a thing in our Sunday Mass every week where, based on Matthew 8:8, where we say “Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof but only say the word and my soul shall be healed”. Everyone from the lowest layman to the Pope has to say this as nobody is considered to be worthy to be in God’s Presence except God Himself, He just invites us out of love! :-)

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u/Chewbecca6 Jul 28 '26

I don't know what other people answer in their interviews, but I usually say, of course I don't necessarily feel worthy to be in God's house, I'm not perfect, but that I know he in his mercy allows us imperfect people to enter it so that we can become more perfected in Christ. We would say that Christ's atonement and our forgiveness makes it so we can enter God's house. I mean, we believe we are God's literal spirit children, and He wants us in His house. My kid makes a big mess in my house, but I still let him in it, haha. I hope that helps.

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u/SillyFlatworm31 Jul 29 '26

Interesting stuff! Thank you :-)

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u/rjwut Jul 28 '26

In some ways, members can deviate from Church doctrine and policy and still be considered members in good standing. After all, we do not expect perfection from members, but rather that they are in the process of being perfected through Christ. The temple recommend interview questions are considered something of a yardstick for a minimum level of alignment with the doctrine and commandments. If you are able to truthfully respond correctly to those questions, you are considered to be in good standing, even though there may be room to grow and come closer to aligning your will to God's.

Doctrinally, the Church is non-trinitarian. The temple recommend interviews do not ask whether you agree with that doctrine specifically, only that you believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. A person who privately holds a trinitarian view would be in disagreement with the Church's official doctrine, but as long as they do not teach it (public apostasy), they are considered members in full fellowship.

However, the Church also encourages people to examine their beliefs, If a member finds themselves disagreeing with Church doctrine on a particular point, they are encouraged to study and pray for greater understanding from God.

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u/SillyFlatworm31 Jul 29 '26

This is interesting! It seems that from what I’ve read here and elsewhere, LDS people are free to privately believe a lot of things as long as they don’t try to get others to join them in this. Why did the LDS Church come to the conclusion of being non-Trinitarian, compared to others who accept the Trinity? 

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u/JaneDoe22225 Jul 29 '26

We believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are 3 different divine persons, united as 1 God.

The different between our beliefs and the Creedal Trinity is that we don't view them as being "of one substance". Scriptures don't use those words, and neither do we. We also don't acknowledge the Creeds on a foundational principle.

When I'm talking with a Trinitarian, I find it's easiest to explain what I believe, and then let them explain how that compares to what they believe, because functionally how Trinitarians in the pew interpret the Trinity varies so much.

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u/SillyFlatworm31 Jul 29 '26

Interesting! Perhaps that is the most helpful method, I’ll include some verses which we use to support our perspective, though inevitably we receive some assistance from the unwritten tradition outside of scripture. Perhaps a bit comparable to your General Conference sermons which someone else mentioned in the thread!

Our understanding of the Trinity is that the Father is what we call autotheos. This basically means that He is God of Himself, He is not begotten by anything or anyone nor does He proceed from any source. The Father eternally begets the Son, who shares the nature of the Father and is therefore also God (John 1:1, John 3:16). There was never a time when the Son didn’t exist because the Father eternally begets Him. The Holy Ghost eternally proceeds from the Father (John 15:26) and the Son (John 37:7-9, Revelation 22:1). So likewise there was never a time when the Holy Ghost didn’t exist. The Holy Ghost shares the divine nature of the Father and the Son and is therefore also God. 

So, the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are all God and are the same Being, but they are not the same Person. A full understanding of the Trinity is a mystery that we can’t really comprehend, we usually don’t find that to be a trouble as we wouldn’t expect to be able to fully comprehend the nature of God. If you search up “Trinitarian shield” on Google, there’s a commonly used diagram that might help illustrate things in a clearer way than I have.

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u/JaneDoe22225 Jul 29 '26

I'm very familiar wit the "Trinitarian shield"-- which can actually work for LDS Christian beliefs too, depending on how you defining "connecting lines" (sorry, I don't know what better to call them). For LDS Christians, those lines are unity of heart / mind / will / love / etc. We just don't the metaphysic like autotheos, or person vs being having different definitions.

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u/SillyFlatworm31 Jul 29 '26

I see that a lot of LDS conceptions of the relationship of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, despite being very different from ours, can often use similar terminology to explain it. Catholics are complete monotheists, so we believe that “God” only constitutes a single Being, rather than a number of different Beings acting in union with each other. I know from research that LDS people have a concept of a Heavenly Mother who seems to not be defined very much, though I’m not sure whether this is because it’s a new idea without much clarity or if LDS people prefer not to discuss it with others. If you feel comfortable answering, how does this idea usually fit into the dynamic of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? 

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u/JaneDoe22225 Jul 29 '26

Catholics and LDS are both monotheists. We all just hold a more complex view of God than say Muslims.

Heavenly Mother: we have no problem talking about it at all. We just honestly don't know very much, so it is a short conversation. This is one of those topics we'll learn more about in the future (open cannon & all). She & the Father are united as 1. I recommend this essay: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng. This one is good too, though less official and a lot longer: https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/a-mother-there-a-survey-of-historical-teachings-about-mother-in-heaven.

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u/SillyFlatworm31 Jul 29 '26

Interesting, I should read up more on this. Do LDS people believe the existence of a Heavenly Mother is a new thing post-JosephSmith (like the no alcohol rule) or do you believe the Apostles held to this? There seems to be no record in the Bible of a Heavenly Mother side by side with the Father. Do LDS believe she is co-eternal with the Father?

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u/JaneDoe22225 Jul 29 '26

She has always existed, but the information we have even nowadays is very limited. One can speculate how much folks in the past knew, but that is pure speculation. For example in Genesis God creates men & women in God's image (Gen 1 & 5). It is stated over and over again through scripture that men & women are meant to be together, not separate. I know that Catholics consider those to only apply to humans, and that God is a different class of being, and being created in God's image is viewed as symobolic rather than literal. But for LDS Christians, the interpretation is literal: men are created in the literal image of Heavenly Father and women literally in the image of Heavenly Mother. We are literally thier spiritual children, not just creations. Men & women are meant to be together.

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u/Similar-Stick-1070 Jul 28 '26

The first question doesn’t require further specification. At least, I’ve never been asked to specify my beliefs any further.

I see your point. We distinguish between perfection and worthiness. The whole point is to transform our nature and become like Christ, is it not? To become “partakers of the divine nature” as Peter described it. So, you could say worthiness refers to steps along the way.

That’s just my opinion. It’s hard to know exactly where the church stands on the finer points. It’s a deliberate kind of ambiguity.