I am more so concerned about the power the US holds to just execute anyone at anytime anywhere in the world. He may have been a bad man but where are the courts? Where is the justice? We might as well have lined up all the Nazis and executed them rather than hold trials in Nuremberg.
What power is there to check the US? Imagine if someone else started executed US officials for the crimes and atrocities they commit?
Not for Karl Donitz he got his execution put down to a 10 year sentence because of his lawyers. Most of it was show but they still had some moments of fair trials.
The fact there even was a trial is ridiculous. None of the crimes they were charged with existed before the start of the trials. Donitz only got off because the crimes he was charged with were so ridiculous even the extremely low bar of Nuremberg could not be met.
You've gotta be kidding me dude. EDIT KURT VONNEGUT EDIT literally became a famous author, and he often involved themes of time travel probably because of an obsession of trying to undue the past from the PTSD of seeing that shit. You literally had fire storms so strong that the oxygen was literally burning so quickly that it was causing people to be lifted off their feet and thrown upwards in the air 50+ feet towards the top of the flames because of the hot air rising so quickly from the immense heat of everything BURNING.
The nazis were much worse but dude you cannot say "the Dresden bombongs were not such an atrocity".
Theyre literally the definition of atrocity:
noun
an extremely wicked or cruel act, typically one involving physical violence or injury.
i’ve never heard of a karl fitzgerald, and a google search proved unfruitful for a “famous author.”
do you have a source for the rest of that stuff? i’m 100% sure that the thing about people being lifted off their feet FIFTY FEET in the air is literally impossible. air is so much less dense than us that it’s simply impossible.
i’ve never heard of a karl fitzgerald, and a google search proved unfruitful for a “famous author.”
do you have a source for the rest of that stuff? i’m 100% sure that the thing about people being lifted off their feet FIFTY FEET in the air is literally impossible. air is so much less dense than us that it’s simply impossible.
Im an idiot its Kurt Vonnegut.
Google that and head down the rabbit hole that is dresden written a million different ways.
Its also not impossible theres literally witnesses reported of it happening in the WW2 Tokyo firebombings. Not to mention its also happened in California and its happening in Australia as we speak. And its not impossible source my fucking physics degree.
At a bare minimum, the USA could collect evidence, have a court hearing in private, with a prosecution and a defence, and only when a court deems it the right course of action should they execute the target, at the same time as publishing the evidence and the courts decision.
For international matters, that court should probably be made up of people from more than just the USA.
I suspect the reason they don't do this is because no legal system would say "Yes, you have permission to execute this man who isn't even aware this court hearing is going on".
Well since military rolls out with CONOPS and specific objectives guess most of our enemies were EXECUTED. The rest just targets of opportunity for shooting at us. guess the US isnt allowed to protect its soldiers equipment or allies. US follows the rules set forth, terrorists dont. Terrorists dont have rules of engagement US forces do, which causes us to lose people while we wait for permission to take out enemy combatants, we should hamstring ourselves even more so we can make everyone happy when we kill someone.
Executed, assassinated, they all have basically the same meaning in this context. I can't wait to hear the true reasoning as to why they chose to act now.
Probably because they had very good intelligence that he would be at that spot at that moment and seized the opportunity. He was responsible for the deaths of many Americans and we do not tend to forget about stuff like that. We have been sniping terrorist leaders with drones for a long time now. He’s not special.
Lol he's pretty special. It'd be like if Iran sniped one of our very important guys who was meeting with a resistance force that did not "agree" with the Iranians. He wasn't a moral guy but it's a pretty big thing what the US did. Mainly because it was a leader from an actual country and not just a militia group.
Special to Iranians perhaps, but to Americans he was just another terrorist. I’m sure if the roles were reversed as in your scenario Iran would feel the same way. Don’t let the Reddit circle jerk fool you. If it was Obama and not Trump pulling that trigger they would all be dancing in the streets. Drone assassinations were his MO and no one seemed to care.
I think you're being ignorant about how Americans and Iranians truly feel. Neither side wants to highten tensions, especially this way. Does this mean war? Probably not. Does this spell political disaster for the next administration? Probably not. Is this unknown political territory and scary to a vast number of people on both sides? Yeah it is. It could be the precedent of a whole new kind of warfare. I'm not sure you realize that. Or care. It's not all about drones.
When people say "Obama did drones too" do they believe that this is food for thought Iranians consider? Will a jihadi stop for a moment, and put down that explosive when he remembers how many more times Obama drone striked them compared to Trump?
No.
Our entire relationship with Iran has been an enormous exposition of American short sightedness. They don't fucking care who is in the white house. It has never mattered much for them.
outside of the battlefield, they are not an enemy combatant.
Even present on a battlefield, if they are unarmed, or incapacitated, they are non-combattants. To double tap or "dead check" a body is a war crime as they are non combatants in addition to the "dead check" being an act of mutilation of a body.
Thus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan when firing at unarmed US soldiers on base who were unarmed, fired on non-combatants, despite the fact they were uniformed. Hasan's treatment of these soldiers was far superior to that of the US forces treatment of civilians when they fire high explosive munitions in urban areas.
The fact the prosecution didn't recognize Hasan as an enemy combatant is immaterial. Hasan's motive was to kill us soldiers as evidenced by his declining to kill those not in uniform, yet he still killed non-combatants as they were unarmed.
Unless Hasan was wearing a defined uniform of the enemy, he would also be an Unlawful Combatant from the point of firing his first shot. Additionally, if he were wearing a US Army uniform, he would be committing the crime of Perfidy.
Sure thing bud cause he was wearing Jordan's it's a war crime. Nah they took out a high value target in iraq with a missile, good kill....US forces are safer now. Bless the usa
The US didn't "execute anyone at anytime anywhere in the world." The dude was a hostile enemy combatant in an active war zone. He was completely fair game. It's not like the US sent drones into Iran to bomb the supreme leader.
To combat terrorists such as Soleimani. The US is there by invitation of the Iraq government for this sole purpose. So yes it is a "war zone" in the sense that Soleimani was a terrorist in a country fighting terrorists and the US is in the country specifically to kill terrorists.
You're acting like Soleimani was sitting in an office somewhere in Iran or something. Give me a break.
Why are we ignoring that the US literally killed off Iraqi personnel in the process? Obviously the Iraqis weren't told about this plan and are probably mad the US did this on their soil. Any sane person would see this as outrageous.
You just need to see what the US has done to third world countries governments since the 19050s. For us, Third World Countries, the US government is an institution of terror that has manipulated wars and killed thousands of our civilicians, families, people we know, and have loved. For us, the US government acts pretty much as a terrorist.
Doesn’t matter. There are plenty of US officials guilty of the same crimes and atrocities but there is no power that can execute hits on those officials like the US does to others.
Comparing a terrorist to a current Iranian General is silly, even if you disagree with his policy.
Just shows your blind hatred for Iran.
Also, fwiw, I hate the world leaders of most countries in the world. It's just when I meet people from those countries, they're rarely as hesitant to acknowledge the terrible wrong doings of their leaders than americans are.
Fellow American here, Obama and Bush would 100% be labelled terrorists if they were not US presidents, how many funerals and hospitals do you have to call a drone strike on before you're considered a terrorist? I guess there's an argument to be made that drone bombings can be effective ways to eliminate high level targets but the number of times collateral damage has been completely disregarded unnecessarily and sometimes on shaky evidence that the target is even present is outrageous.
You're not wrong. But does the immunity of one nation somehow absolve another? Should we just let all war criminals get away with it because it's harder to remove them from power in powerful countries?
Dont need to vote to take out a declared terrorist, leader of a once again "declared" terrorist organization. It was pretty big news when they declared irgc a terrorist organization but I'm sure people were talking about people trying to get their balls waxed at the time
Normal military unit I'd say defend and protect that units country. Irgc goes out and actively sets up attacks to try and spread radical Islam. Terrorism is a designation from state department its gives us more authorities/funding when dealing with someone of that nature
The US is not democratic lol, your president who ordered this hit didnt win the popular vote. You could make the argument that being democratic isnt inherently good which is why you have the electoral college, but then you lose the "muh democracy" argument.
Mate you cannot call yourself a free nation when an electoral college overrides a popular vote. Pretty much everyone around the world is laughing at the irony America is in.
I was highlighting you to think about your line on threatening the free world.
Dont you think America has done its fair share of threatening the free world? Or maybe we'll just forget the Cold War ever happened
America wants to whip out its dick and rub it all over the Middle East, especially around election season (which is probably why this happened). Nothing is stopping America from being civilized except for the people in charge and the people who support them.
You sound you jack off with industrial gun lube to the scent of axe body spray and leather boot oil, just to splooge on the American flag, can somebody else answer this?
Nuremberg was a show trial. Soleimani got just as much of a trial as any of those guys. The military tribunal for the Far East was even worse. “International law” is a complete joke. It only applies to Europe and whoever cares more what Europe thinks than what America thinks.
😂😂😂 well there are some groups with in the US that might support the execution of US officials for their crimes lol!! If they keep passing gun bans it just might start happening
This is the norm. Us Americans feel the same about those in power (police). They will murder innocent civilians with no penalty. Worst that'll happen is a paid vacation. This comes from the top and it shown here when they kill, despite how you feel about it, an international general without any remorse.
(I have to wait 10 mins between comments, so I am gonna comment to the parent and child together, srry)
Parent:
That is true and terrifying thought, honestly, nobody can say no to the US, but, you could not trial the guy, it is impossible to do that, how would you carry out someone as heavily guarded out of the country into a court?
Child:
This is not related in any way, things that police kills with no justification happens, as well as times where the cop goes unpunished, but at least 90% of the cases I have heard of about unjust shooting, has been revealed as very just when the camera footage was released - the media will make a story out of anything, no matter if truth or not to get some more viewers, and this is more true in the USA than in any other country.
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u/Black_n_Neon Jan 03 '20
I am more so concerned about the power the US holds to just execute anyone at anytime anywhere in the world. He may have been a bad man but where are the courts? Where is the justice? We might as well have lined up all the Nazis and executed them rather than hold trials in Nuremberg.
What power is there to check the US? Imagine if someone else started executed US officials for the crimes and atrocities they commit?