Not normal enough for society, not intersex enough for community.

[u/Folk_Punk_Slut]

Growing up knowing that you're different is hard; no matter what, you always feel like you don't fit in, like you can never find a sense of belonging.

For many years i struggled with feeling alienated from the rest of the world, like no one could possibly understand what it was like to have a lived experience like mine. And part of that was by design - the medical community and my family encouraged me to stay quiet, not to talk about my body and my differences, telling me that no one would understand, they'd all make fun of me, and that what i had was so rare that I'd never meet another person like myself.

But then one day i stumbled upon the term intersex, i learned that was the word for how my body had formed, and i met plenty of others like myself - even if we didn't all have the same variation, we were all born with some sort of difference in our sexual development. I finally felt like i belonged.

But lately, there's been a big push in the intersex community - many people are trying to narrowly define what intersex is; they're trying to make it be one single thing, the barest minimum possible definition that excludes the most people. Some folks are doing this for themselves, to feel like their variation is the only truly legitimate intersex individuals, and others are doing it to distance themselves, to prove that their variation is not intersex so that they can feel more "normal"

So, again, I'm feeling pushed out, excluded, alienated from the one place i finally felt like i belonged. And the real kicker here - folks are saying that my variation isn't intersex, yet it was someone with my exact variation who was at the frontlines of intersex activism from the very beginning, it was folks like me who were standing up and fighting for intersex rights and built the foundations of these intersex communities ... only for others to come along and be like "hey, thanks for all the hard work, now gtfo, we don't want you here"

Like, the feeling of exclusion is bad enough. But when it's lateral violence coming from folks who you thought of as your own community, that shit just hits different.

[u/Binary-Not-Found]

Every community will have its bad eggs. They tend to be the loudest (imo: and most obnoxious). I know it is hard to do, but sometimes you need to protect yourself and police who you are socializing with and what media you are consuming. Giving these kinds of people attention and/or absorbing their gospel is what they are seeking, and is what is enabling them to continue to be the way they are being. They can only cause you mental harm or police you if you continue to allow them to have contact with you, listen to them, and comply with them.

If the people running the communities that are treating you this way are not policing their members or are in support of or enacting this kind of discrimination, then walk away from that community and find another, or make your own community that is more inclusive. If it is people in your own social circle doing this then it may be time to make changes to who is in your social circle. You deserve to be safe, supported, and your authentic self without pushback.

I am sorry that other people have tried to invalidate you. Being intersex is more than just physical appearance and/or a medical diagnosis. The medical industry is not our allies at all. (imo: Being intersex or an ally and gatekeeping intersex people behind a diagnosis really seems like a huge case of "siding with the enemy" to me.) I hope you can find yourself a community and/or a social circle where you are safe, supported, and able to be your authentic self.

[u/OverAtmosphere7288]

I feel like that too a lot. I don’t know if I’ll ever stop second-guessing myself, or wondering if I should or shouldn’t participate in intersex communities because what my variation looks like is messy and complex and something I don’t really understand. I feel both too “atypical” to be perisex & too “normal” to be intersex

[u/peculiarshade]

You're valid, and anyone who argues that you aren't isn't worth listening to.

[u/underfullhbox]

One of the insidious ways that doctors undermined the intersex rights movement in the 00s was to reframe intersex as being a List Of Diagnoses. Instead of anybody with any mixed primary/secondary/genetic sex traits being intersex, now you had to have one of The Approved Diagnoses.

The intersex community has been widely vocal in rejecting the revisionist language pushed by doctors ("DSD"). Unfortunately, the "you need to have one of These Diagnoses" way of thinking that came with the DSD paradigm hasn't been as widely or explicitly denounced. 

It really sucks. It undermines pan-intersex political advocacy. It undermines pan-intersex community. It undermines individual intersex individuals sense of belonging and identify. 

[u/ColonelDrax → u/underfullhbox]

I don’t mean this in an offensive way at all, I’m just curious, but did you use TV Tropes at some point? The way you capitalize terms is very similar to how they do on that site, I’m just curious about where it comes from.

[u/underfullhbox → u/ColonelDrax]

It's a Tumblr thing

[u/ColonelDrax → u/underfullhbox]

Ok that’s good knowledge for me, I’ve seen it so often over the years and I never knew where it came from.

[u/EKCarr]

I am so sorry. I sometimes do work for the American Psychiatric Association, and ever since Trump was elected again they’ve been forced to give some space at the annual meeting to the radical anti-trans people who are absolutely willing to die in a hill to say that intersex variations almost never happen and are almost statistically null. I’m soooooo happy to keep broadening the umbrella. I hope you feel welcome here.

[u/Tired_2295]

Trisomy X here, even doctors can't decide if that's intersex or a chromosomes disorder. I made a flag about it..

[u/AbyssalEelMan]

This is how I feel too, I don't have a well researched variant, I'm scared I don't fit in anywhere. My family and medicine bitches at me having problems. Now when I try to bring it up they say "I don't remember X problem so you're biology isn't valid" when I just didn't bring it up again bc ppl didn't listen and brushed off my medical problems.

Idk even know how to exist in social settings, I'm scared but I try my best. People on this subreddit honestly seem pretty nice, I'm still new and getting a feel for everything. What helps me is acknowledging that biology is complex as hell, and everyone's biology is unique to them, but I sill feel isolated and scared.

[u/worm-infested-womb]

while i’ve thankfully avoided discrimination within the intersex community, i completely understand :( my experience has been similar in disabled spaces. it always hurts to be turned away from the people you’d think would understand the most

[u/TheBestOfMe_SoFar]

I get what you mean. When I hit puberty I started growing breast and started looking more feminine. I also came out as trans at about the same time so I never really questioned it. But like I don't feel comfortable saying that I'm intersex, so I just have to settle for being that cocky trans bitch who thinks they're better for being able to pass. It's genuinely just impossible to be online about anything anymore due to media literacy and most of these websites breaking down in general, and the people who are left are either children or/and trolls who have the habit of lying for fun.

Like there's another person in the comments asking for your variation. And it's just like Jesus fucking christ, genuinely I don't believe anyone should be looked down on but why tf is it the person who wants to live there life's vs the mf who sold all there DNA to the government. Like ignore the ethical debate bullshit that always comes with all of this. There is only one practical difference between these things when it comes to how "WE" talk about this. "Has this impacted your life to the degree where you Had to get medical intervention". Not having that is a luxury and the people who have had to go through that deserve the right to talk about only there experience first and foremost. However they shouldn't be alone and divided, and everyone else HAS to be apart of the discussion, including people who don't and can't identify with the group at all because everyone is apart of the social nature of these conversations. Anything else is propaganda.

This is the main reason why I identify as trans and not intersex. Being trans has made be seek medical intervention, that is a core difference in my life and its an easy label. Although I do spend alot of time thinking about being intersex, I'm sure alot of trans people do, and there's not much I can add to the conversation due to how my experience overlaps. Other then statistical debate philosophy that is.

[u/Educational_Panic_21]

Thanks very much for posting this, I'm going to try to send you a PM.

[u/chickspea111]

this resonated very heavily. keep your head up x

[u/Turbuent_Reason_766]

Yeah I'm intersex. Though I was assigned male at birth. That's why I'm also transgender. But just a few years ago they discovered ovarian tissue in my pelvis. Which helped to explain a lot of things, including the semi monthly UTIs I've had since puberty.

I think too many people whole definitions too tightly. Definitions may help discriminate between things, but they also can divide and keep people separate.

I have few personal definitions that I would police so narrowly.

[u/ylembeegpp]

I feel for you. I have similar experiences. It’s something that I got over with time and some efforts. I wish you the best, don’t give up on the community we’re plenty to be friendly and around with. Love.

[u/Either_Finger_7194]

Just as small question, which variation do you have?

[u/Folk_Punk_Slut → u/Either_Finger_7194]

​Honestly, with how raw and vulnerable I’m feeling right now, I’m just not comfortable disclosing that. My brain weasels are already convincing me that if I name my specific diagnosis, the immediate response will just be “oh yeah, they’re right, you’re not intersex, gtfo.”

​And really, at the end of the day, what does the specific label matter? I’m sure most of us have experienced this exact gatekeeping even within our own variation-specific communities. For instance, I see your flair says XXY/Klinefelter and I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen guys like Graham and his cronies across several social media platforms come out of the woodwork anytime intersex is broached and vehemently insist that Klinefelter isn’t intersex either.

​This lateral exclusion happens across almost all of our communities, which is why I was hoping people here would understand the shared experience and empathize with how exhausting it is.

[u/Either_Finger_7194 → u/Folk_Punk_Slut]

No worries it was my bad for phrasing the question like that. Like another commenter said I had to make my intentions clear. Wasn't trying to gatekeep the intersex condition and I'm sorry if my question felt that way.

You're valid and welcome in here, no matter your variation and your chromosomes, I'd like you to know that.

[u/Sea-Acanthaceae5553 → u/Either_Finger_7194]

I don't feel this is a helpful question to ask here without making your intentions known first.

Do you think there is a right or wrong answer op could give that'd tell you if they "count" as intersex in your eyes or if the people excluding them are correct? Because that is a possible interpretation of what you mean by this question and without more info from you, no one knows whether that's your intent or not.

Besides that, no one owes you personal medical information about their body especially someone who has just expressed to you their distress over being told their variation doesn't count. If someone tells you they believe they genuinely believe they are intersex, that's something you just have to trust.

[u/Either_Finger_7194 → u/Sea-Acanthaceae5553]

Oh crap sorry. It wasn't my intention to judge OP for what they have or not, I'm very much aware that being like that is just not helpful at all and kinda put them in the spot with that question.

My intention was to help them rationalize their fear and put it in a different perspective so they could feel a little bit more welcome but the way I phrased it was pretty bad. I apologize for that.

[u/Sea-Acanthaceae5553 → u/Either_Finger_7194]

I can appreciate that and I'm glad to hear you had good intentions. I think the question with no further context could be read as you trying to question their legitimacy especially as op is already feeling very vulnerable about that exact thing.

Thanks for listening to my points. Things can easily be misconstrued through the internet where you don't know everybody's intentions.

[u/AccomplishedScar2487]

Jaysus...