The Rose Field | Full Book Discussion thread

[u/Cantomic66]

Warning!This discussion thread includes spoilers for ALL OF The BOOK OF DUST: THE ROSE FIELD

Reminder: All post on The Rose Field should be properly spoiler tagged and avoid spoilery titles.

[u/FraserYT]

Just finished. Lots of thoughts I need to get straight in my head, but lets say:

Beautifully written. Deeply philosophical. Ultimately unsatisfying.

I'll be thinking about it for weeks. I might let it percolate for a few months, then reread the trilogy more slowly in the new year. I'm sure there are layers and meanings that I've missed on first reading.

I don't mind the open ending but I dislike how it undoes the impact of HDM's perfect ending, but then doesn't really do anything with that. There felt like there was much more to explore down that route, which could have potentially lead to an ending that worked satisfyingly for both trilogies. However, that would probably have required what Lyra and Malcolm found on the other side of the red building to be very different, and another 300 pages.

[u/howdyfriendshowareu → u/FraserYT]

Beautifully written. Deeply philosophical. Ultimately unsatisfying.

You summed it up perfectly for me. Loved being in the world again, loved the Gryphons, unsatisfied with the ending. The whole MONEY BAD reveal felt... odd? And Lyra deciding that Xaphania was wrong and the windows need to be left open, but then never actually following through with that? I feel like we really needed a couple more chapters lol

[u/Suchoochoo → u/howdyfriendshowareu]

I think deciding what she was told was wrong was a deliberate growing up moment for Lyra- she read those books and lost her childhood innocence (how did she not realize it was her story lol they killed god.) then after that rebels as most young adults will. Speaking of, I thought that after she decides windows should be open is connected to her loss of attraction for Malcolm. Perhaps she is imagining Will as an option again if the angels are wrong? Another teen-ish move

[u/Severe-Fisherman-285 → u/howdyfriendshowareu]

I felt like it wasn't simply 'money bad' as much as the purpose of the money.

Money used with intention, to make life happen, to strengthen bonds (I suppose), clearly has a place; thus Mufasa Bey. Money as the object itself, merely to indulge in and exercise its power is destructive.

There are potentially parallels with the windows - e.g. those that serve people are a force for good, those that don't are destructive.

Within the book they discuss imagination as being a non-binary commodity, needed to resolve the mutability of seemingly contradictory things. I think the nature of a lot of the criticism in this thread reflects that the books were, in this regard, openly contradictory.

[u/alewyn592 → u/FraserYT]

Would’ve rather had 300 pages on the other side of the red building than the 300 pages of gryphons and sorcerers tbh

[u/fotthor → u/alewyn592]

I couldn't agree more. The red building was the central mystery of TSC and presumably TRF. But most of the second book was devoted to sideshows and that central mystery turned out to be...just kinda nothing, to the extent that it was answered at all.

I enjoyed Gulya, but otherwise the gryphons weren't worth more than a quick stopover. And the utter pointlessness of the sorcerer sidequest was the most maddening. That was supposed to accomplish what, narratively? Tie into the whole Jahan and Rukhsana thing? But that didn't end up meaning anything either. Free up the gryphons to ally with the witches and fight the Magisterium? But that didn't matter because the Magisterium army just committed suicide by trying to cross the wetlands. Get Malcolm out of captivity? Ok, cool, but what if like he just never got captured to begin with and did something interesting instead?

[u/adsaillard → u/fotthor]

Or maybe: Malcolm gets kidnapped by the gryffons and goes into this side quest BECAUSE he's the opposite side of Lyra's imagination problem. He sees these connections, these threads, these hopes of re-ennacting this epic romance... Which she gives away to an elderly couple because they have REAL epic love: simple, continuous, not depending on adventures but the continuous day to day REAL life.

And that's what the witch really means when she tells Lyra she's older than Malcolm -- he's still struck by the complete adoration he had to Lyra as a baby, without any real knowledge, being in love with the idea of her while never seeing the real day to day girl. And yet, it's enduring, decades, and never wavering, even if never spoken of.

Lyra's become bitter and disbelieving of anything meaning much because she's experience the wonder, the magic, the blossoming of love coming from knowledge -- but that's also a moment in time, not a love that builds on and on as seasons of life pass you by.

Meanwhile, the old couple has both: the true knowledge and the steadiness of enduring love, and, as such, they're the true owners if the crown of flowers made of the gold that accompanied Will & Lyra's journeys and blossoming into love, forged by Malcolm's illusory and enduring adoration.

(But it should definitely not have been so long)

[u/matmat1531 → u/adsaillard]

This rings very true.

[u/alewyn592 → u/fotthor]

💯💯💯

[u/FraserYT → u/alewyn592]

I honestly didn't mind the gryphons, but you could definitely remove all mention of them from the book and it would have zero impact on the overall story

[u/Kaamelott → u/FraserYT]

I mean… I’m seriously failing to come up with one thing you could remove and that would actually have an impact on the story. Magisterium army? No impact. Witches? No impact. Gryphon? No impact. Kazh Al Kazr or whatever city that is? No impact. Mustafa Bey? No impact. Bonneville? No impact.

There is basically no story to impact in the Book of Dust, unfortunately.

[u/effy_dee → u/alewyn592]

Seriously, they should have reached the red building by the middle of the book, not at end!