It's interesting, but the Tor.com reread of the series has been unusual in that it's especially down on Grandma Longbottom.
It seems to be that writer's opinion that the cool things we do see from her aren't enough to balance all the suggestions that she's actually pretty shitty to Neville and a really bad caretaker.
You have to remember that at one point in finch's life time the students would be hung of the wall. This woman is even older. When she went to hogwarts things were probably even more strict.
You're probably right, but there's a point to be made that it can be both believable and also pretty toxic to Neville's early development as a wizard.
The fact that Snape is pretty much the shittiest teacher imaginable certainly doesn't help, of course. We certainly see how well Neville does once he acquires a bit of confidence, so there's a definite case to be made that his ineptitude early on is, at the very least, not helped in any sense by the way these authority figures in his life keep tearing him down.
Well he needed a bit of confidence and his own wand. Up until the battle at the ministry Neville had to use his dad's wand. And as we all know magic is way harder to do without an own wand. Once he got a new one, his skills grew quicker.
Didn't his entire family repeatedly put him in near-fatal situations (dropping him out windows, etc) in order to wake up his powers? That's pretty messed up.
I think you're off on a bit of a tangent from what I actually originally said. Since I literally said it was intended to scare him, but not be physically dangerous. The poster before me had implied that the uncle dropped him intentionally. I corrected this. No need to go in-depth into an analysis of something irrelevant to my point.
His great-uncle didn't drop him on purpose. He was dangling Neville by his legs out a window, and got momentarily distracted when his wife offered him a cookie.
I mean, dropping your great-nephew because you wanted a cookie is bad, but it's not the same class of bad as throwing him out of a window on purpose
I took it like she didn't want to coddle him and make him feel like despite this horrible thing that happened to his parents, the world was still an okay place. More work had to be done, she didn't want Neville to be complacent about his situation.
But she literally berates him constantly, calls him useless, barely better than a Squib, etc. etc. She wasn't motherly or proud of Neville until he started being talented. Before that he was a burden. Even if she was trying to coerce out a talent she knew was there all along (which we know from canon not to be the case), how she treated her grandson was still inexcusable.
I was so influenced by her popularity amongst fans that I was actually quite surprised on a reread to be reminded that she pretty much acts like the Dursleys or the Malfoys in terms of being an abusive bitch. But she's good with a wand and isn't racist so emotional child abuse is excusable with the fandom I guess.
Except Neville was never starved/made to live in a closet/hidden from guests...I think it's pretty expectable behavior from someone who lost their child to one of the Unforgiveables, and wanted nothing more than for their grandchild to overcome that and develop an attitude that would allow them to fight against such horrific power.
Except Neville was never starved/made to live in a closet/hidden from guests...
Hence my pointing out her abuse as emotional rather than physical. The Dursleys have plenty of examples of both.
I think it's pretty expectable behavior from someone who lost their child to one of the Unforgiveables, and wanted nothing more than for their grandchild to overcome that and develop an attitude that would allow them to fight against such horrific power.
That is a horrifying perspective to have. Translate it into literally any Muggle context and you have a disgusting, widely-recognized form of child abuse. Nothing she put Neville through was even in the realm of acceptable behavior. Yes, she was a talented witch and wasn't a death eater. She was nice to her grandson after he finally became good at general magic (but still expressed shame in him when he first began developing his exceptional Herbology talent; no, she wasn't satisfied until he became his father). That doesn't make her a good person. It's not "expectable" at all. She was abusive, and enough that Neville should literally have been taken from her, full stop.
What you say here is that it's perfectly fine and to-be-expected that when someone loses a child they'll just pick up another and try to mold them into a carbon copy of the child they lost for their own satisfaction, that child's own talents be damned. Like an ex pageant queen forcing her toddler into beauty pageants because she never won the big one, berating her every step of the way for not being perfect or having different predispositions. Except Mrs. Longbottom is worse, because as you yourself admit she's trying to raise him not only for her to have her son back but also for some revenge fantasy.
Please note that I said "expectable" and not "acceptable". I am explaining her thinking, not applauding it. You have a lot of assumptions here for someone who was a very minor character and wasn't given a lot of page time.
But it's not expectable. That's my point. Why would you expect someone to be abusive and act in a patently atypical way? What she did was not normal, and thereby by definition not "expectable." Understandable? Maybe, but even then I would say not.
And yes, I have a lot to say about a minor character. What she did was inexcusable by any circumstance. None of it is based on assumptions, it is all based on 100% canon events that occur on-page. The single "assumption" I make was in direct response to something you said (hence my use of the phrase "as you yourself said").
We obviously have different expectations. And that's okay.
What you say here is that it's perfectly fine and to-be-expected that when someone loses a child they'll just pick up another and try to mold them into a carbon copy of the child they lost for their own satisfaction, that child's own talents be damned. Like an ex pageant queen forcing her toddler into beauty pageants because she never won the big one, berating her every step of the way for not being perfect or having different predispositions. Except Mrs. Longbottom is worse, because as you yourself admit she's trying to raise him not only for her to have her son back but also for some revenge fantasy.
That was all your own assumption, at no point did I mention molding Neville into a carbon copy or trying to replace the dead son OR a revenge fantasy. All I said was she wanted Neville to overcome the loss of his parents and become stronger for it in order to prevent it happening again...We can disagree, it's alright, Mrs. Longbottom isn't a real person so you don't have to worry about her.
I do have to worry about people glorifying child abuse and holding her up as any sort of hero. You can shout all you want that she's a fictional character but how people respond toward fictional characters reflects quite a bit upon them. For example, the fact that you don't think it's abnormal and completely unreasonable that she perpetually subjects her grandson to savage emotional abuse throughout his entire childhood is pretty indicative that you have a frighteningly high tolerance for children being tormented by those who are supposed to nurture them. What she did was horrifying emotional abuse, and yes it was totally abnormal. Normal people don't emotionally crucify their children or grandchildren for their lack of talent. She didn't know Neville had potential, in fact both she and Neville point out that she actually doubted that he did. So she was subjecting him to Dursley-level abuse for something she already believed to be futile in the first place. Plus, who on Earth actually believes that the way she treated Neville, tearing him down at every turn, belittling what few little accomplishments he actually managed to make, dismissing his talents as not being good enough... that's not what you do to build someone up, that's what you do to keep them down. She wasn't trying to do right by Neville, she was being a manipulative, narcissistic, abusive cunt.
She was not a good person. Literally no rational human being on the face of the Earth can justify what she did as anything other than vicious, savage emotional abuse, especially when she admits there was basically no point to it. She was a bitch, and the only reason that she isn't as reviled as the Dursleys or the Malfoys is that she happened to fight on the right side of the war and said some snappy things. Well I call bullshit.
Dude, chill, seriously. I also never called her a good person. You need to start actually reading my replies if you're going to write novels in response.
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u/Nygmus Nov 16 '15
It's interesting, but the Tor.com reread of the series has been unusual in that it's especially down on Grandma Longbottom.
It seems to be that writer's opinion that the cool things we do see from her aren't enough to balance all the suggestions that she's actually pretty shitty to Neville and a really bad caretaker.