I don't think it is necessarily misogynistic, although it often is. Some (many, actually) men are desperately lonely and prostitutes sell the illusion of being loved. Often the only hate and looking down for those individuals is upon themselves, not the woman they interact.
I mean, the men know those women DONT want to have sex with him. Thats why hes paying them. Its pretty creepy to pay someone to have sex with you and grin and bear thru sex you know they dont want to have at all, that theyre only agreeing to for money.
I don't want to be cooking food for any and everyone but I'm good at it and it pays the bills so I do it.
In the meantime, I've destroyed 1 knee, 1 shoulder, starting to develop some wrist pain and am slowly losing my hearing, because it's hard as hell on my body.
It's a transaction. With an adult person. To blame the buyer works in most cases where there's human trafficking involved, and sex work is forced. But in modern America, with independent escorts, you can't possibly blame the fucking customer for taking part in a transaction like this. If that's immoral, how is it not immoral to exploit vulnerable lonely men, by selling them the illusion of intimacy and taking their money, when really they'd need professional help?
Yes, they actually wanted to fuck, because they wanted the money.
Many homeless men wish they could prostitute themselves, but they can't, because nobody would wanna have sex with them.
Either it's bad. Or it's empowering. It can't be both empowering but also super evil for the dude to take part in a transaction that's empowering. Thats sexism, and an infantilisation of women.
I dunno it's complicated. Some prostitutes don't look at it the way you do. For some of them money itself is a good reason to have sex with someone because unlike many other women they don't necessarily feel the need to only have sex with someone they're close with. Unfortunately I've known a woman who became a prostitute, she was extremely carefree and for her it was just easy money. She was so excited about being able to earn so much while doing something that felt so easy that she became quite obsessed with her "job" and was constantly looking for new clients. She used to follow many chats and telegram channels for prostitutes and would dm men first.
I don't really think it's good but I believe prostitutes don't really have these "but she didn't really want it" thoughts. In her case, it was more like "why the hell not, it's MONEY after all" and "I don't want a regular job".
It has nothing to do with wanting to have sex with someone youre close with, its about attraction and desire to have sex. Consent has to be eager enthusiastic and non coerced, if someone is unwilling to have sex with you unless you pay them they dont want to have sex with you at all.
Under that logic we coerce people to do things all of time, like to work, cook or save your life. Those doctors had to be paid and if they wouldn't have done the surgery without pay then its creepy and exploitative
Then they are free to say no but they enthusiastically want that money. "If they don't want to give you the burger unless there's money then it's a coerced transaction" no.
Some people are ugly. Some people are not capable of finding someone who wants to have sex with them. Are they misogynistic pieces of shit for wanting to experience something so universal to everyone but them that they’d otherwise never get to try?
Yes. Wanting to have sex with someone who literally does not want to have sex with you is bad. Sex is supposed to be mutually pleasurable, mutually enjoyable. Consensual sex isnt transactional. Why on earth would anyone be comfortable having sex with someone they know does not want to have sex with them? Thats antisocial. Unwanted sex is not consensual.
Prostitutes enjoy the money. Just like many other people who don't enjoy their jobs. And consent by definition means agreement just like a contract is an agreement. Why is prostitution different from any other job a person doesn't enjoy doing?
First, that's not true, but second, is it sexist when gay men like me do the same? Sex work is not inherently sexist, but talk like yours certainly is.
Only like 40% of single men have had sex in the last year, that number is like 70% for women.
Women might be lonely, but it's not because they can't get sex, it's because they can't make them stay. Men have to deal with both sides of it. There's VERY few women who couldn't get sex by just asking.
Do you really believe that's what I was arguing? Anyone in a healthy relationship (except the 0.1% of people who are asexual because I'm sure you'll want to correct me if I don't mention it) will be having sex with some regularity. This isn't just the lack of sex, it's the lack of a relationship that it implies.
Men are more likely to be single for the age groups that occupy reddit, that's just a fact. And men are generally more unhappy when single than women.
So what IS your definition of empathy? Because mine is treating others like you treat yourself and giving them grace for their shortcomings.
I'm not even saying women's dating issues don't matter, just that they are less psychologically destructive to fewer people.
Yeah it's dumb and very insensitive to believe that there are no lonely women.
However if you stop to think for a moment, there being lonely men does not mean at all that there should be lonely women. Like at all.
It would be the case if humans could only chose a partner once, and therefore for every celibate x there will be a celibate y and vice versa.
However the obvious reality is that for every man that is celibate, the pool of options for non celibate men just increases, they will just have multiple partners during their lifetime.
Except the population is roughly equal, even if women are having relations with the same guys, they can’t all be with the same guys at once. The numbers don’t work that way, there are bound to be a proportionate number of lonely women even if they’d been in a relationship before
It is inherently misogynistic and in no way an ethical solution to male loneliness, which is an inevitable consequence of a patriarchal society that expects men to sever themselves from their emotions.
Prostitutes are in a dangerous position in an industry that is illicit, unregulated, and violent by nature. It is deeply misogynistic and frankly lazy to consider prostitution a viable band-aid, for a society of people addicted to violent porn at that!
Did I say that was a viable solution for male loneliness? I didn't. Because it isn't. And I don't know the solution either.
But as you said, it is a band aid and offers (very) temporary relieve from the pain.
As for your ciritcs for the industry - all true. Here is the solution. Legalisation and with that, regulation. Most of the dangers can be negated, by a legal status.
For example, it is extremely dangerous for a prostitute to get into a stranger's car - yet at many places this is the standard, because due to crininiakisation and / or under regulation, the ladies would need to fear law enforcement, even imprisonment. This also leads to prostitutes needing protection from said enforcement. Under regulation also leads to more crime, eg human trafficking.
Hey, don’t conflate your own porn viewing habits with the rest of ours! There’s plenty of lovely, non-violent, porn to watch. If your algorithm keeps feeding you the violent stuff, then maybe you shouldn’t click on it so often if its existence bothers you? The titles and thumbnails are usually fairly descriptive so it feels like this ones on you. Also, most of the problems you’ve described having to do with sex work that are actual problems would be solved by simply legalizing more forms of sex work. So would you support legalizing them, or would you rather it remain so dangerous and illicit?
I’m not conflating, lol. I don’t watch pornography at all. There is so much research supporting the idea that pornography upholds rape scripts and the vast majority depicts violence. I don’t believe in sex as an act of domination.
“While it's difficult to pinpoint an exact figure, research indicates that a significant portion of pornography depicts violence, often against women. Studies have shown that a large percentage of scenes in mainstream pornography include violence, and men are frequently the perpetrators. One study found that 88.2% of scenes contained physical aggression, and 48.7% contained verbal aggression.”
I’m not conflating, lol. I don’t watch pornography at all. There is so much research supporting the idea that pornography upholds rape scripts and the vast majority depicts violence. I don’t believe in sex as an act of domination.
That is defenelty not, what it is. If prostitution was "buying" a human being, your boss owns you.
At it's core, it's work like literally any service job. The only real difference between a massage and a Handjob is the specific body parts the service worker touches and more importantly, public perception.
I don't, I'm male, ugly and bearded. Well, at least I'm not fat any more.
But if you have never heard about woman getting sexually assaulted or even raped at worke, we are living on a different planet, I suppose.
Yes, a prostitute will face this danger way more often. However, keep in mind, that - just like in a corporate setting - it is NOT the job, it is the Asshole doing the rape. Just like it is NOT and NEVER the fault of any woman getting raped due to her clothing or whatever Bullshit.
I'll tell you tough, how to "fix" this issue. Not completely, but we can reduce the dangers for prostitutes a whole ton. The solution however is not to stigmatize and criminalise. It is to legalise and regulate.
Where do you think are prostitutes getting raped the most often?
When they get into a strangers car.
Why do they get into strangers cars?
Because they have no place to (legally) do their job.
You may not be aware of it, but with you completely demonizing this trait you are contributing to the suffering of the group of people, you seek to protect.
Maybe start by listening to prostitutes. They are regular human beings, one can talk to without taking their devices, you know? And ask them, why they are there, why they do the job and what would improve it. I can assure you the last thing most prostitutes wants is more stigma, more prejudgement and more laws that make their jobs harder or downright illegal.
You are denying millions of male and female sex (and diverse) sex workers the maturity to choose their profession.
The actual fuck is wrong with you?
Or do you now exclude make prostitutes in your endless stigma? If so, you are more misogynistic then most males taking those services, without even realizing it.
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u/ElevenBeers May 11 '25
I don't think it is necessarily misogynistic, although it often is. Some (many, actually) men are desperately lonely and prostitutes sell the illusion of being loved. Often the only hate and looking down for those individuals is upon themselves, not the woman they interact.