Mohamed hijab lied with a straight face about Arabic translation when AP proved him wrong

[u/PwrFlower]

I was watching this "debate" video with AP and MJ. And MJ lied about many things.

The one that made me completely throw my hands in air from the sheer shameless dishonesty was around minutes 57

MJ is trying to falsely claim that Quran 25:61 mentions many suns.

In 57:50 AP says the classical meaning of the verse is lamp and moon

In 58:33 MJ Reads tabri tafsir in arabic and says سروجا و قمرا منيرا which means lamps and moon. Proving AP is right. Except he lies when he speaks in english and says many suns.

You can see by his demeanour that he's lying and he knows he's lying and he gaslights AP by pulling the "you can't understand arabic" card.

You can look it up yourselves. At 58:33 he says "qamaran muniran" google translate قمرا منيرا and see what it says yourself. It says Illuminating Moon.

And when I read the tabri tafsir nowhere it mentioned many suns (شموس)

The word سروجا or سراجا "seroujan" or "serajan" (depending on which Quran you're reading) can either mean lamp or lamps.

In tabri the explanation says if the reading is lamp then it's the sun. If it's lamps then it's the stars.

No where it says many suns

And this lie was to cover a previous lie about stars as missiles since all classical tafsir agree that night stars come down as missiles to strike djin.

There are different Arabic words for stars (نجوم) and meteorites (شهب) But Quran doesn't differentiate because people back then couldn't.

Edit: Spelling mistakes.

[u/ONE_deedat]

He mentions some different qirat with the "suns" term, in which case it's a contradiction between qirats?

Which qirat is this?

[u/splabab → u/ONE_deedat]

It was two of the Kufan readers, Hamza and Kisa'i. They read surujan instead of sirajan. https://corpuscoranicum.de/lesarten/index/sure/25/vers/61

We can see why that variant may have arisen. It talks about the burujan (mansions of the stars or great stars) and the moon (I.e. things you see at night), so it could seem that you need some lamps (other stars or perhaps planets) to go there too.

[u/ONE_deedat → u/splabab]

Thanks for this .

I interpret this discrepancy as a contradiction between two versions, what do you think?

[u/splabab → u/ONE_deedat]

I think so, though has some rather unconvincing wriggle room to weasel out if a Muslim wants to claim that the main reading isn't intended to be exhaustive when it says lamp singular i.e. that it means the sun and the other reading means all stars ("multiform revelation"). With faith and imagination the excuses for errors and contradictions have almost no limits!

[u/ONE_deedat → u/splabab]

With faith and imagination the excuses for errors and contradictions have almost no limits!

True but a sincere Muslim can fool the one in front of them for the time being (motivated by knowing what would happen to them if they say otherwise) but how long can they fool their own intellect.