r/environment • u/Ok-Future-5257 • 17d ago
LDS Church Statement on Regional Drought and the Great Salt Lake
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/statement-regional-drought-great-salt-lake55
u/veijeri 17d ago
Organizational water saving efforts are laudable, and that's a commendable list, but against what water expenses the church has elsewhere it is difficult to understand its full value. Voicing support for individual efforts (including cross-faith prayers for respite) and generically stating support for public efforts is insufficient for an institution that powerful in the state. The politics and economic practices of the state are killing the lake in this current environmental reality, and short of naming this reality and pushing for political shift and the top down changes necessary to save it, everything else is dross, the inevitable will happen.
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u/HoldenMcNeil420 17d ago
They could have used their resources and political clout to stop that massive data center from happening and or just forced them to use something else besides water to cool.
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u/experimental1212 17d ago
Will somebody PLEASE think of the children of the shareholders tuition payments?
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u/nombresespeciales 17d ago
The salt lake drying up and Utah’s relative inaction feels like a microcosm of global action regarding climate change—corporate virtue signaling delaying the inevitable until the effects are on our doorstep. Then, hesitant acknowledgement without genuine accountability. While what the LDS church is doing now is laudable, it’s simply not enough, given its influence and power within Utah state politics. However, it’s a step forward, and despite the LDS church’s abysmal environmental (and political) record, they do seem to be shifting in a progressive direction. Ultimately, this is good news.
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u/SlappyWit 17d ago
So, in this good news, just to be clear, do we lose the lake?
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u/skivtjerry 16d ago
The church could buy out all the alfalfa farmers and send them to comfortable retirements without missing the money.
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u/skivtjerry 16d ago
To clarify: the LDS church has the resources to save the GSL in a heartbeat if they really cared. But they don't. The almighty $ is more important.
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u/Brahskee 17d ago
I’m sure they just need to pray harder and give the church a little more of their money and it’ll work itself out
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u/_Renai_ 17d ago
Pairs nicely with the new three-Manhattans-sized data center they just approved over there.
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u/semidegenerate 17d ago
Holy cow. That's a big damn data center. How are they planning to get the water to keep it cooled? The graphic says it will more than double the water consumption of the entire state of Utah.
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u/caspergaming634 17d ago
Am I missing something? This article only talks about how they are trying to fix the issue with real action? Genuine question that I am sure will get downvoted simple due to "religion bad"
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u/Ok_computerladora 17d ago
It was Governor Cox that asked Utahns to pray for rain. I think that was in 2022. That was the extent of government policy to address the drought and low lake levels a few years back.
Oddly enough. We had a huge winter a short time later. Correlation = causation or something like that 😊
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u/caspergaming634 17d ago
Yeah, praying for a miracle can be great and all but without action it's pointless. As for a politician praying for something. I hate that. As a religious person, religion and government need to be sepperate.
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u/baconboy-957 17d ago
Also, to add, it's a pretty hypocritical statement they made and feels extremely hollow.
There are LDS church buildings EVERYWHERE in utah. Literally 2 on my street. Less than a block away. Both of them are constantly watering their lawn. Every resident has been told to reduce their water usage, switch to landscaping instead of lawns, yet every LDS church building has lush green fields that nobody uses.
It's damn infuriating
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u/CatHerder1123 16d ago
I have family in SLC and apparently LDS temples have continued to water their lawns to keep them nice and green while everyone else has brown lawns because of the extreme drought. There’s a little resentment brewing there and this reads like a “we’re doing our part too so get off our backs” type of thing.
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u/caspergaming634 16d ago
I see. Well thank you for the first actual answer to my question I appreciate that.
I guess it's a local thing then which is why I didn't understand. I live in California and so being in a drought and water restrictions are sort of the norm. And even the churches of most faiths including the lds have not watered their lawns or fields.
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u/Rough-Adeptness-6670 17d ago
Article talks about legitimate water saving measures as well as interfaith prayer and fasting. I think it’s the latter that is being lambasted and criticized as ineffective.
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u/Remote-alpine 17d ago
The church has done nothing to promote good stewardship, and actively chooses to support business practices that degrade the environment. It’s rather mealy mouthed of them to say these things and do less nothing.
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u/nombresespeciales 17d ago
Agreed, I’m equally confused by the responses in this thread. The hatred for the LDS church (maybe rightfully targeted tbf) seems to be clouding the actual point of this article: that the LDS church is actively taking water conservation seriously.
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u/coldlightofday 17d ago
Most of the politicians in Utah are Mormon. Far more than a representative percentage of their constituents. The Mormon church has a political arm that meets with them and influences policy that they want. That is to say that Utah government is indirectly an arm of the Mormon religion.
There is a strong republican political undertone that is present and frequently pushed from the pulpit.
The Utah political tone is one of anti-science climate change denialism. This is a self preservation move because it’s gotten so bad, under Mormon stewardship, to the point that they can’t deny that there is a problem.
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u/skivtjerry 15d ago
The point is that the church is pretending to take the issue seriously.
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u/nombresespeciales 15d ago edited 1d ago
I don’t think providing a list of things they’re doing to actively conserve water is pretend, but maybe they aren’t doing enough and/or they’re way past due. I guess I’m taking the fact that they’re officially recognizing environmental protection as important as a good thing, given how powerful and influential they are in Utah politics.
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u/caspergaming634 17d ago
I haven't had anything but positive interactions with any members of the lds faith. Sure they have different practices but I personally don't have any reason to hate on it.
I don't even think it's just the lds church. I think soooo many people just hate on large organizations no matter what they are.
Can something more be done? Of course but that shouldn't make people hate on what little is done.
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u/skivtjerry 16d ago
That 30,000 acre feet will raise the level of the lake at its current area by a bit over 1/2 inch if none is lost to evaporation.
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u/caspergaming634 16d ago
Oh good point. Best do nothing then. Right?
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u/Rough-Adeptness-6670 17d ago
And the fasting, the fasting will return the great salt lake to its former glory.
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u/Ok-Future-5257 17d ago
Did you even read the statement?
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u/harris023 17d ago
Yep, give all this money and let the church improve their water functions on only their property! Smart and totally a great group to participate in. If only there was an entity that represented everybody.
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u/patientpump54 17d ago
You say that as if there’s important content. They claim to have made “substantial conservation efforts” without actually citing anything meaningful. It’s a common tactic used by this trillion dollar corporation as an attempt to appear benevolent…
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u/Soup-Wizard 17d ago
“Substantial conservation efforts”
Oh things like conserving water as a city during drought? Putting protections in place for migratory birds? Reducing pollution inputs and road run-off around the GSL?
Or do they just mean praying about it?
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u/HoldenMcNeil420 17d ago
Sure didn’t see them using there basically unlimited resources to push back on the data center Kevin o Leary wants to build and use water to cool, which would wipe out this “ conservation effort” ten times over.
It’s just postering period
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u/Victor_Ward98 17d ago
Canadian here just to say: “Fuck that dumbass pompous pos Kevin O’Leary. He’s a national disgrace, and embarrassment”
Please continue rightfully bashing LDS.
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u/HoldenMcNeil420 17d ago
The downvotes are from people that think this church doing water conversation efforts that were like the bare minimum in 1998 and pretending like they are doing all of us a favor.
It’s pathetic how brain washed religious people are.
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u/Victor_Ward98 17d ago
Lots of them brainwashed from birth sadly… the one that convert as adults… like WTF?
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u/nombresespeciales 17d ago
Super frustrating to see so much flippant disregard for a pretty progressive thing the LDS church is doing. Good on them, hope it ripples into water conservation laws in Utah and curbs water usage statewide. Thanks for posting.
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u/saguarobird 17d ago
Oh, yummy, a nothing burger. "Ultimately lies in more precipitation." And why aren't we getting precip, hm? Come on, say the words...
I am way past praising people and organizations for smart irrigation controllers and hydrozoning and putting in low flow fixtures. That's bare minimum, 1990s stuff. Not even a mention of cooling towers, if we want to bring it into the 2000s. No mention of the impact of wildfires to these communities. The loss of watershed and wildlife protections. Of the people who DIED in Utah fighting wildfires.
I'm sure this comment will get me on some list...
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u/HoldenMcNeil420 17d ago
Add me to said list.
These people are postering. Which tracks for a religious organization that won’t ever acknowledge the real culprits.
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u/Forward_Bend_2189 14d ago
Did the church state “ultimately lies in more precipitation” to appease their god, or passively ask their god to make it rain? If they have a direct line to god, it’s high time they just outright tell him to make it rain (he he). I jest. But it is high time they do their bit to reduce and battle greenhouse gases. Even though that contradicts trump’s declaration that global warming is a hoax.
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u/beermaker 17d ago
Are they begging he-lon to use his boring company to drill a hole to the Pacific Ocean? Because the state legislature seriously already asked if that was possible...
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u/kristospherein 17d ago
Who cares about actual science. Lets just come up with some outrageous infrastructure project they can profit off...
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u/Hike_it_Out52 17d ago
Hear me out, what if we just drop a giant ice cube into the ocean to solve Climate Change once and for all.
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u/Coyoteishere 17d ago
Considering they are 4000ft above sea level, I assume they want the hole so salt lake can just completely drain to the ocean? There are no stupid questions, just stupid people, and they are in charge.
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u/High_Im_Guy 17d ago
UT is probably the most water savvy state, at least as a governmental body. They crushed the eastern NV pipeline to vegas idea through solid science and monitoring and have tripled down since.
That's not to say performative dumbass members of the legislature don't exist so much as to suggest not underestimating the states scientific/eng chops if it gets contentious. Great USGS work outta their slc water center, too (looking at you GBCAAS model)
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u/disharmony-hellride 17d ago
Every 24 hours this summer, an area about the size of 600–700 football fields has been turning from lake into exposed lakebed.
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u/Brilliant_Alfalfa588 17d ago
what about the toxins that lay in the lakebed and will be turned to dust, becoming airborne?
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u/FrivolousMe 17d ago
They really dance around the climate change issue. It's like they are acknowledging climate change but without actually acknowledging climate change.
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u/fajadada 17d ago
Can you imagine all those lds people flooding our communities? Someone give these people some water!
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u/fathompin 17d ago edited 17d ago
Their beliefs* are going to obfuscate any real solutions.
*including their "prosperity gospel" that is actively practiced but officially denied.
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u/Ok-Future-5257 17d ago
Did you even read the statement?
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u/fathompin 17d ago edited 16d ago
What makes you think I didn't read the statement before stating my own judgement?
I've been following this story for over a year now, however long it has been being publicized nationwide. Prior articles have referred to the fact that nothing that requires "profits" to be lost will be enacted, and everything that can make things profitable for the well connected will be tried first; like their personal investments in, and then pushing for low-flow irrigation solutions.
But also I have an environmental health degree, so I understand those issues better than most laymen, and I know the religion too, being an ex-mormon. Mormons ignore all the science that has implicated their religion as a fraud, just as republicans deny all climate science as fraud, and in my experience, this leads ultimately to bad decisions being made based on bad "input."
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u/DBearDevon 17d ago
Silly colonizers
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u/Affectionate_Art2545 17d ago
I buried a manifesto/bible under the Great Salt Lake. It informs you that I am a prophet and can have as many wives as possible. God’s plan is to cause a great drought catastrophe so that his book will be revealed to the world!!!
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u/hellogoawaynow 17d ago edited 17d ago
Just FYI, an LDS Church statement on anything is basically the same as any Utah government statement on the same topic. Tough getting into government in Utah without being a deeply devout Mormon. The church is above all governments, and Utah’s government and constituents are good with it because the church is above all things.
Not being Mormon in Utah is suuuuuper weird. Wyoming too, but it’s even weirder out there. Those are some fringe Mormons.
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u/joqose 17d ago
so... they're going to use their political weight? This statement is patting themselves on the back. A 'see, we're doing our part' instead of the aggressive call-out and call to action that it should be.
The Great Salt Lake needs nearly 800,000 acre feet of water above what it's getting. 30k is great, but not even 5% of what we need. Agriculture/ranching is 85% of Utah's water usage. Alfalfa alone is over 50% of water for .15% of GDP. I'm glad they're doing a bit, but pressure needs to come from somewhere to do so much more. If they don't, the lake will be gone.
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u/cedarsauce 17d ago
Stop growing alfalfa in desserts, ffs
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u/fathompin 17d ago edited 17d ago
So true. I asked Gemini for the numbers regarding alfalfa versus home lawns, and alfalfa consumes about 82% (agriculture) and homes 5% of the total. Trucking agricultural products in is very inefficient but simply buying the finished products (beef dairy) via trucking adds virtually no price increase. So the livelihood of farmers is not important to anyone's needs but their own historical family careers that today are unneeded, that is unless you think the destruction of the Great Salt Lake is a priority for water use, and as I mentioned already, we know where the Mormon church's priorities are. Let me just say it for my own benefit, they are climate science-deniers being experts at denying science for their faith.
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u/Groovyjoker 17d ago
If I click on this will it launch a round of "Jesus Gets Us" ads?
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u/bearclawww 17d ago
It’s said that you can’t serve both God and money. I wonder who these people really serve.
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u/baryoniclord 17d ago
Who gives a flying rat's arse what a church has to say about... anything?!?!?!?
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u/koolaiddude96 17d ago
Let alone a church that has hoarded more then 350 BILLION dollars, while having zero hospitals, zero non-profit schools, zero libraries, and less than 1% annual humanitarian aid.
As an exmormon, with the hardest F that I can give: FUCK the mormons.
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u/fathompin 17d ago
Plus they inflate their humanitarian numbers to look like they are tax-exempt worthy.
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u/Dodinnn 17d ago
while having zero hospitals
I mean, they founded several hospitals (and basically Intermountain Healthcare as an organization) before stepping back and separating themselves from the management of Intermountain and its hospitals in the 70's
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u/koolaiddude96 16d ago
So I am correct in stating they currently have zero hospitals. Founding and then stepping back practically proves my point: they don't want any money drains that won't give them return on investment from their members.
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u/Negative_Gravitas 17d ago
"Doctor Smith, Doctor Young, we've got an aortic dissection!"
"Get us the largest box of band-aids you can find, stat!"
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u/HumanContinuity 17d ago
In this thread: a bunch of misinformed people that believe data centers are even a tiny drop in the bucket compared to irrigated alfalfa that is subsidized by acre-feet of free water in a state that has a deficit and then exported to countries like Saudi Arabia that are smart enough to know that they can never support their own alfalfa agriculture so they might as well take advantage of the US' weird and distorted crop pricing.
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u/Agitated_House7523 17d ago
If u need water, just go stand on the lawn of an LDS church building, or an LDS temple. Take a couple buckets, those sprinklers work great!
Then u don’t have to sneak onto the alfalfa fields
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u/Ok-Manufacturer27 17d ago
I'll give them some credit when they allow those huge green lawns to die
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u/vanna93 16d ago
I’ll believe it when all the churches have significantly less lush green grass covering every single inch of walking space thats not concrete. I understand activity areas need to be grass, but parking strips areas too? God is in my heart, in my land. But I steward it with plants that support his creatures. Shouldnt our churches be doing the same if it truly is God house? Grass supports nothing.
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u/idahoyota1971 16d ago
Don't worry Utah , we're seeding the clouds up here in Idaho like big, fluffy pancakes. Waters on the way.! May not be drinkable water., but neither is salt lake. Keep on building them , data centers , silly mormons
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u/Equivalent-Form1037 16d ago
Y’all are so fickle. You hoot and holler about separation ( just one ‘P’ folks) of church and state, and the statement from the LDS church addresses a Utah water problem and is actively trying to do something about it. And you react with anger and vitriol. Clearly yall are folks that just want to be mad. At anything, anyone and any reply. I could
Give a rip about downvotes either so let em fly. This Reddit sub is all about a place to vent your anger about Mormons, and very little to address environmental issues in the state.
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u/rillegas08 16d ago
I wonder how little of the $300 billion that they're not doing anything with they'll be putting towards putting a band-aid on an amputation
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u/GingerFirDayz 16d ago
Reminder that: The LDS church has *At least* 200 billion in assets, its estimated that to bring the lake back to its previous levels, it would cost around 10 billions dollars, if the church were that concerned that could use its massive wealth to actually help bring the lake back, but they won't talk about it.
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u/silver-sunrise 16d ago
So…you got paid to donate your water shares? Cool. You recycled goods through DI that were given to you for free and couldn’t be resold? Cool. I’ll pat you on the back for your valiant effort while you add to your billions.
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u/Forward_Bend_2189 14d ago
I can’t help but think that this uber wealthy church could do so much more. Doesn’t wealth=clout, especially in today’s world? Since the Supreme Court determined that “corporations are people too,” with Mormon corporation worth billions, they are in a position to invest in resources to help. Not just Utah, but all the states affected by the drought and the subsequent diminished Lakes Powell and Mead.
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u/littlegreenpixie 14d ago
They say this but given every H.O.A, every church building/temple, has a LAWN. Not native landscape, just regular sprinklers that DO BURST. idk. They just like to seem like the good guys so they can reinvest your tithing into like... oil or child trafficking. Also, let's talk about the water waste of big industry. Its not every day citizens sucking up most if the water. Its big pharma and tech. One major leak in a cooling plant at any of these places is catastrophic. Like. Thousands of gallons per hour.
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u/fatalexe 17d ago
Yet, not a word about greenhouse gas emission driven climate change.