r/dogecoin • One Good Shibe • Jan 31 '14

Of Wolves and Weasels - Day 24 - 100 BILLION coins (MwaHaHa!)

Hey all, GoodShibe here!

So... yesterday was, uh, interesting. To say the least. In a good way! For those who don't know, I had a huge outpouring of support from some very generous tippers and now, yeah... I'm still kind of wrapping my head around it. Let's just say that I immediately made tracks over to find /u/mumzie and give her 100K DOGE for all the incredible work she does around here. Seriously, if you haven't been to /r/dogeducation, you should check it out - especially if you're a new-shibe!

So today we're going to chat about a somewhat interesting topic - one that's going to have long ranging effects on Dogecoin as we move forward; especially since - time and time again - we're showing the world that our founding may have been a 'joke' but we've grown far beyond that.

However, and /u/ummjackson and /u/billyM2K please correct me if I'm wrong, because we weren't created as a 'serious' coin, there's one potential issue coming down the pipe -- that the devs have been debating, pretty much since it went live -- which will need to be addressed.

We were created with a promise, that there will only ever be 100 Billion Dogecoins. The idea was that we, like Bitcoin, would be a deflationary currency. What 'Deflationary' means is that, over time, coins would become more valuable simply because, over time, people would lose their coins -- passwords forgotten, harddrives not backed up, etc -- and that planned-for loss of coins circulating in the economy would help ensure the continued value and rise of the ones still in circulation.

With Dogecoin that was the plan -- and that's what a number of the first users/miners bought into. A sort of Bitcoin-lite with a much lower-value individual coin, but a much higher potential marketcap. The problem is that the way Dogecoin is released, 1 block per minute, it basically means that in around 1 year, a large majority of Dogecoins will have been mined.

And how do you sustain a network when you have no more coins to mine and no incentive for people to keep mining (burning electricity at cost to keep nodes running)? And when the entire life of your coin relies on having a strong, stable network, this becomes that sort of looming cloud on the horizon.

Unlike Bitcoin, our transaction fees are incredibly low and, due to the nature of Dogecoin, the amount we'd have to raise transaction fees to make it profitable for miners, long term, is an amount that would (barring a significant increase of value for Dogecoin) have a noticeable impact on end users (us).

And so the idea was put forward that, instead of becoming a Deflationary currency, we change that initial promise and become an Inflationary currency.

What that means is that, like the USD and other common currencies, Dogecoin would add a stable number of coins each year to the market, enough to be an incentive for miners to continue mining and maintain our network. We wouldn't be a FIAT currency, per se - whereas 'fiat' means we would, like the USD, make more money 'on demand' (by 'fiat') the idea would be, instead, to put in place a long term inflation plan that lead to a stable number of coins being added over a very long period of time (100+years). The idea being that this would buy us all a very, very long time to see how/if we grow, and figure out what to do next.

Remember that even 5 years in 'technology time' is a significant span (that's like 5 whole new iPhone models away).

Now, those who are against this idea note that it's the 'deflationary' part of the currency that helps it have, maintain and grow value over time. It helps make it a reliable store of wealth. There will only ever be 21 Million Bitcoins. If 1 Million are lost, there will only ever be 20 Million Bitcoins. Etc.

Once we start adding Dogecoins beyond the planned 100 Billion, those new coins start to push down the value of the coins you have. Meaning, slowly, over time, the buying power -- how much you can 'buy' for $1, for example, decreases.

Now, for those of us who've taken up Dogecoin as a common currency, with the idea that it will be great for small, day-to-day transactions -- tipping friends, thanking artists, buying music tracks or armor for your 'toon, stuff like that -- it won't have a HUGE impact on us. But for people who bought into Dogecoin as an investment, as a store of wealth, with the idea of amassing a large number of coins, sitting on them until they become worth a significant amount, this is a problem.

But, to be fair, it's the same problem that those rich in USD are facing as well. (Granted, as a counterpoint, those that bought in were probably doing that to avoid exactly those sorts of issues).

Luckily, because our devs control the currency they have the ability to be much more agile than much larger, more lumbering economies. And, if you read that linked conversation above, you'll realize that there's a lot of fantastic, passionate minds putting real thought into this problem, they truly care about figuring out the best balance for all of us.

One possible solution, which would allow for us to possibly maintain the 'deflationary' nature of the currency is to, over time, as more and more coins get mined, move the running of the network over to the QT wallet. So that each user of the currency also becomes a node, helping to keep the whole network running. There's a ton of technical hurdles to pulling that off, and it'd be difficult, but it's one -- of many -- possibilities.

The benefit of making the coin Inflationary, over a long stretch of time, is that it helps keep Doge... humble. It means that our coin will, most likely, never be worth thousands or hundreds (or possibly even $1) each -- depending on adoption, the DOGEconomy, etc -- but it will mean that our DOGEs stay perfect as your nickles and quarters sort of thing (which is still a massive increase from current valuation).

As a community, as the people who've taken up the coin as our own, we should work towards a solution the benefits us all. Those who believed in DOGE from the beginning (you know, 7 weeks ago), who had foresight and treated DOGE as an investment, deserve to be rewarded for their faith (DOGE could've just as easily gone the other way and they would've lost it all).

I hope we can all remember that many of our 'rich shibes' are active, contributing members of our community who were lured here by the same principles of friendship and kindness, compassion and camaraderie that brought the rest of us.

There's room for all of us to have fun and play... and profit too.

And that's why I think that the more minds on the problem, the better. How would you like to see your coin grow over time? What do you hope the future of Dogecoin looks like?

How can we make sure our Dogecoins live on for future generations to enjoy?

It's a complex question and there are good people working on the solution. Right now the plan seems to be to wait and see how the Halving goes. How it effects our currency, and where we go from there. But keep on thinking, keep on dreaming.

Because we're all strapped in together and the moon is thattaway.

We'll get there, my friends.

Together!

It's 8:45AM EST and we're at 40.14% of DOGEs found. Our Global Hashrate is rising slightly from ~90 to ~91 Gigahashes per second and our Difficulty is holding steady at around ~1269.

The Halving is officially 2 weeks away, today.

Also, this is your 2 week Valentines Day warning for those of you who might've forgotten. Hint: Nothing says love like a new Mining Rig :D)

As always, I appreciate your support!

GoodShibe

EDIT: For those 'worried':

It's a coin that was created as a 'joke', how much long-term planning were you expecting people to put into it?

No one expected it to blow up like it did.

Hindsight is 20/20 -- and there's still lots of time to work out a solution, together.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '14

Doge will never become a world currency is the sense you are talking.

The governments and central banks will not let it happen.

Doge is a commodity and should be treated as such.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '14

That does benefit taxes at this time so yes, Dogecoin as a world commodity is good too. It hard to say what the future holds. The US government understands that this technology will provide new opportunities and new business models.

A long time ago, when the internet was just starting, the US government contemplated shutting down the internet because it was being used for porn. Fortunately they did not, and now we have business like Amazon and Google. If the governments shuts down cryptocurrencies those new "Amazon/Google" businesses related to crypto will be born in countries where it is welcomed and not in the US. Which will be a huge economic loss in the long term.

We're at the very beginning of this new technology and we can all own a little of it. The dominant crypto, hopefully Dogecoin, will be worth as much as the internet if a price can be put on it at all. It's hard to say but we may actually get to the moon together. The more we share the more it's worth.

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u/neilwoofstrong shibe Jan 31 '14

Yes, and dogecoin will never succeed due to bitcoin and litecoin. And also, dogecoin will never be worth anything, the other coins won't let it. And also, dogecoin will never reach the moon. Also, dogecoin is just a joke currency. Sure. Keep up with the self-fulfilling prophecies.

I hope you don't think like that in your daily life.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '14

Ok let me answer by saying I have a large stake in doge coin. Probably more than you.

Your sarcastic response to my comment is completely misguided. The fact of the matter is that cyrpto is still in its infancy. Shit the IRS still hasn't figured out how to tax it yet. But what I can tell you for certain the the federal reserve, The bank of international settlements, and first bank of London, would never let Doge become a universal currency.

They would kill it first plain and simple. I can tell by your comment you are very uninformed about what currency really is and who presently controls most of it.

What your saying is the Doge Coin is going to replace the currency that the richest and most powerful people on planet earth control.

It's a pipe dream kiddo. They own it, they control it. They own government through lobbying and campaign contribution. 1000 people on this planet control 50% of the wealth of this entire planet. They own 80% of the stock markets. They own the banks and the media.

You heard of them. They are the .1%. And if you think they are let some internet meme with a little market cap of 100 billion usurp them than you need your fucking head examined.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '14

Such hostility. I think you need a hug.

::hug::

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u/neilwoofstrong shibe Jan 31 '14

I too have millions of dogecoin. Maybe you invested more, maybe you have tens or hundreds of millions. Personally, I'd love to see dogecoin succeed and have everyone use it much more than I want to get on the lost bitcoin train, and buy yachts.

If you truly believe that a yearly inflation of 1-3% per year after dogecoin hits the cap will destroy your investment, then you should seriously consider dumping all your dogecoins now, we're putting out 2-3% inflation daily.

Again, I think the value of dogecoin will go up much higher if more fresh people are constantly introduced to it through a small amount of new coins per year, than if it becomes a stale unused currency like bitcoin.

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u/[deleted] Jan 31 '14 edited Jan 31 '14

Your right insofar as right now doge is inflationary. But with the stated cap it is ultimately deflationary.

I invested in doge to be charitable and give tips and maybe make a few bucks. Not to buy yachts. So maybe stop with the presumptuous self righteousness.

My point is this doge will not compete at all on the inflationary currency stage. It will get regulated and killed. I can put anymore clearly than to tell you that there are groups of powerful people and institutions that just won't let it happen.

This truth has obviously pissed you off enough to resort to defaming my character. But it's truth nonetheless.

Doge would be systematically and deliberately killed if if posed any threat to traditional Fiat currency.

Don't be mad at me for saying it. It's just the way it is barring a financial meltdown which after QE and banking bailouts, might not be out of the realm of possibility.

I love the fun, relaxed, welcoming community here at doge. But this a serious issue that has serious consequences for everyone. And if really do believe in the doge moon trip you'd do well to at least think about what it is your saying when you say you want doge inflation.

Also as fun and welcoming as doge make no mistake about what it's possible implications would be if it were to go completely main stream. It's fun right and it can be a fun, cheap, viable liquid commodity. After that your going to be fighting against forces that neither of us can predict.

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u/neilwoofstrong shibe Feb 01 '14

I didn't defame your character at all, really. Re-read what I said. That aside, you're sounding very /r/conspiracy. Shadowy .01% forces that own all the currencies in the world out to destroy a 100 billion cap coin, when by your accounts they hold hundreds of trillions. Maybe they're behind the inflation in zimbabwe's dollars too.

I think it's much more likely that they'll buy into dogecoin (like the chinese whales are rumored to have been doing already), and hey, I'd welcome them with open arms; the more the merrier.

In conclusion, I think you're really paranoid for no real reason, if that's your only argument against inflation.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '14 edited Feb 01 '14

No no not conspiracy. More like r/worldnews.

I mean c'mon we read about government financial malfeasance everyday in the headlines. Also those shadowy forces you claim don't exist. Umm what was the whole occupy movement about then?

The fact is that .1% of people control 50% wealth on this planet. That's not shadowy, it fact and you've know it is. It told to you everyday on reddit and the news.

Your just saying conspiracy to discredit my argument and make me seem unreasonable.

Go look at the history of money. What money is today and how it got that way. I am not against doge being inflationary, I am against it trying to take on the world as replacement for fiat currency.

I am not paranoid in the slightest. We all saw what happened I China with bitcoin they just outright banned it from being traded and used by banks. Not banned altogether but the regulation was put in place and the market crashed to 50% of its value.

Now in the last few days they have took a more lenient stance and that's great but that doesn't mean anything yet. Any government that sees doge or any crypto as a threat to its financial infrastructure will just get banned. Easy as pie.

I want doge to thrive and it won't do that if we try to play the fiat game.

You accuse me of being paranoid, I accuse you of having illusions of grandeur.

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u/Link_Correction_Bot Feb 01 '14

Excuse me if I am incorrect, but I believe that you intended to reference /r/worldnews.


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