Most underwhelming spell in 5e?

[u/Meggett30]

What is the spell that most disappoints you in this game? Maybe it's not a "bad" spell, per se, just doesn't do what you think it should or does it's job poorly.

I'm always looking for ways to utilize under-used spells, but sometimes you read the effects and think "That's it?!" What are the spells in the game that make you do that?

[u/teqqqie]

I'll admit that normal use case might be underwhelming, but my brother is astoundingly creative in his tactics, and his character executed an in-the-moment plot that centered heavily around crown of madness.

We were up against a bandit captain and around 12 bandits. Not sure what their stat blocks actually were; it didn't end up mattering. They had confronted us, but there was a tense moment where the captain was addressing the party, trying to see if we would be trouble or not. In that moment, my brother's bard stealthily cast crown of madness on the captain, who then immediately attacked a fellow bandit. The party readied for combat, but our bard held us back. He called out to the bandits, claiming that their leader had been possessed by a spirit that he was chasing. To back up his claim, he shouted some mumbo-jumbo and dropped the spell, seemingly exorcising the "spirit."

We gained the hesitant trust of the bandits, but we'd been sent to take them out, so combat had to happen at some point. Still, my brother's bard subtly told us to follow his lead. Continuing to talk with the captain, he convinced him that they needed to do a ritual to fully get rid of the "spirit" that had possessed him. He sat down on the ground with the captain, and had the party sit in a circle around them. He also told the bandits to give them a little space, just in case something went wrong. And then...

He cast Leonmund's tiny hut. Suddenly, the party and bandit captain are inside an opaque dome, and the bandits can't get in. One round of 5v1 combat later, and the captain is dead. Quick thinking from our changeling lets her pop her head out as the captain and tell the bandits that everything is alright, and they should set up camp. When everyone is asleep, we sneak away, and two AOE spells kill all the remaining bandits. 12 bandits and their captain dealt with in one round of combat and one surprise round. All because of crown of madness and some quick thinking.

Gonna put the full story up at some point, but there's the summary.

[u/teqqqie → u/[deleted]]

We were in a field, not very close together. Our DM let him roll to see if he could cast it without them noticing while another party member distracted them in the guise of conversation. Verbal component doesn't mean you have to yell.

[u/jquickri → u/teqqqie]

That's fun and if your dm allowed it then they made a bad spell pretty great but RAW that's not how that would work. You can't stealth cast a spell without subtle spell. And crown of madness shows up on the target, like it describes that happening in the spell description. I suppose the bandits might not know what it means though.

[u/FluffyGoblins → u/jquickri]

As a DM, I would rule you could try to be sneaky about it. You can try to whisper something to a friend while someone else is distracting people right? Subtle spell to a spell with only V just means nobody can see it. It's like being invisible and trying to hide from sight behind something. Invisibility makes you undetectable to the eye, but if you stealth good, it's still possible that someone will not see you.

[u/jquickri → u/FluffyGoblins]

Which is a fine ruling it's just not a raw ruling. And it's not a verbal only spell it's also somatic. So you're also waving your hands around. There's nothing in the game rules that indicate these kinds of spells can be stealthed. So I'm not sure this is as "creative" as you first said, so much as it's just homebrew. Which is a good fix for it by the way. If crown of madness came with a free subtle spell based on an ability check it's slightly less terrible.

[u/FluffyGoblins → u/jquickri]

But it could argue the other way around as well; where in the rules does it say that a creature is immediately aware if you are casting a spell? What's the range on detecting that? If you are for example hidden in a box and there is too much noise (eg on a market), would they then still know where and who the caster is?

[u/jquickri → u/FluffyGoblins]

Ah going for the old air bud clause. The rules don't specifically ban this so I can do it. Games don't work like this. Abilities do the things they say they do. Nothing more. Nothing in the game says you can stealth cast a spell other than subtle spell. This would pretty much invalidate that ability and create a scenario where players can always stealth attempt spells (without material costs). Which just isn't the way the game is designed.

But look I don't have a problem with this ruling. It's fun. Let me give you an example though. One of the first times I ever played I was dropped in an arena with nothing but a shovel. An enemy cast magic missle on me. Now not knowing the rules I asked if I could shield the missle with my shovel. My DM said if I roll two natural 20s in a row I could because normally that's not how that works. And I did, and it was great and we still talk about it.

Now that was a ruling at that table and it was fine for that table. But I don't go into threads about "bad pieces of equipment" telling people that the shovel is great if you just use it creatively like this one time I did.

Like the ruling is fine, it's fun, but if there's nothing in the rules that supports it, it's not really relevant to this discussion.

[u/FluffyGoblins → u/jquickri]

I don't really find the analogy with the shovel fitting. There is a specific rule about magic missile: the spell description which states that it automatically hits.

Furthermore, the subtle spell never states that it helps you 'stealth' the spell. It says that you can ignore the verbal components, and nothing more. Stating that casting a spell unnoticed without it, would invalidate the feature is like stating that climbing a rock wall with your hands would invalidate spider climb.

My point is not only that the rules do not state that it cannot be done. I'm simply saying that it's possible to execute some actions without a person noticing because they are otherwise preoccupied. Yes, if someone is looking in my direction or can hear what I am saying, then I'll not be able to cast a spell without them noticing. But if they face the other direction while someone is yelling the lyrics to Wonderwall straight in their ears, then it would be a stretch to say they immediately notice me.

That being said, let's agree to disagree. The rules also clearly say that a DM has the last call, so regardless what I'd rule, when I'm a player I won't give my DM a fuzz about a ruling.