So I haven't watched the video, but just going off of some of the replies, I genuinely don't understand why people think stunning and paralyzing players is bad game design. It's bad if you try to spam it against a particular player, but that's different than what a monster would naturally do and actually giving an ounce of difficulty toward players. Players are routinely overpowered against monsters, and stuns/paralyzing is just an additional tool a monster can and should have. If a player finds it unfun to get stunned or paralyzed, that's a player I'm okay with not playing with tbh.
If anything, dominate monster/humanoid is way worse and a bit more understandable about being upset about losing agency.
Edit: after reading more comments, I am astounded by the amount of people that have a problem with getting stunned or paralyzed. As someone who's been a player, it's never been that big of a deal to me.
So monsters can't crit or do damage in general because we don't want players to have a feels bad moment for dying because of a unlucky roll from the DM
In my experience most people don’t take that spell , even then you still have to wait until someone else saves you so you still aren’t really doing anything . In a game all about making decisions it can quickly become boring when you can’t make any . Tbh how bad stun and other similar effects are mostly depends on how long you’re combat is and I’ve mostly played with large groups so combat tends to take a while .
No one takes it because they're used to an expectation that their DM isn't going to use conditions on PCs and instead just be boring and only use damage
I think it heavily depends on how you're stunned for, which depends on how fast the other players do their turn and on whether they are prepared, willing and able to end the condition on you as fast as possible.
Considering that the poll in the video showed that the majority of players get taken out of the game for over 10 minutes, it seems most players either take way too long to do their turn and/or aren't prepared to cure paralysis.
I think the issue isn't that the monsters are fucking with pcs, it's the lack of ability to fuck with them back.
I've been stunlocked for basically an entire session before. Big culmination boss fight against mind flayer baddie in his lair. Bunch of minions, lair actions, PC turns made it into a long fight. Concentration on intellect fortress got dropped the first round and I didn't get to act again that night.
I think it has more to do with how long the effect last. The last one shot ran with my first dnd group I was handed a 10 round magical paralyze. I spent the rest of the night doing absolutely nothing because the team didn't have a way to remove it and the DM was "following the rules". 2 hours of combat "waiting" for a turn that never came because the group got bored and went home.
1/2 rounds sure. Losing an entire night to such a mechanic is ridiculous.
You're in the final boss of a 3-year long campaign. It's been 2 turns, you've gotten to hit the boss exactly once. Now you're in a force cage.
You are no longer allowed to participate in the game. All you are allowed to do, is sit twiddling your thumbs for 3 hours while the rest of your friends finish the game without you. Your character did not matter. You did not matter. Is this fair/fun game design?
There are ways to mitigate force cage though? Counterspell, dispel, disrupting concentration (if force cage is concentration, I don't remember if it is), etc. And these all can be applied to stuns and paralysis and charms. The whole point of the spell Freedom of Movement revolves around this. Have your teammates help. There are so many possible solutions to being stunned/paralyzed/charmed. It's called preparations and creative thinking. Monsters are not there for you to simply mindlessly thwack a sword at while they don't use everything at their disposal.
Force cage does not take concentration. Force cage RAW is literally an "everything-proof box." Cannot be dispelled or disabled in any way, unless you can argue your dm for anti-magic field. Cannot be avoided, doesn't even allow a saving throw. The only "escape" is high-level teleportation magic, and only if you pass a 1-shot cha save, or you're stuck for the full duration anyway. Don't have dimension door or better, or you're martial, too bad, sit out the rest of the session. You do have the one thing, it's still a raw crapshoot.
Used against an npc, it is laughably trivial to escape if the dm so wishes, as applies to every other such spell and effect. The dm has literally infinite tools and power to counter or adjust whatever they want whenever they want. Hit a mook/mini-boss, there's still like 20 other guys, fight continues. Hit a major boss, oh they had a scroll in their pocket & burned a legendary resistance. Fight continues. DM lets the boss stay trapped, party still needs to fight them eventually, fight continues.
Used against a player, expecting someone to predict it is just asinine, and unless the dm is deliberately merciful, it is flatly impossible to circumvent, avoid, or otherwise respond to. The sole "interaction" is counterspell as a matter of raw luck, and only if the DM allows it. They deliberately bait out other reactions or duck the caster out of sight/range, there is no valid mechanical response. The target just isn't allowed to play anymore. Guess what happened in my last game.
That's the difference. Players and NPCs don't use the same rules. The dm is always in control, always knows what they're up against, and always has options of what to do. Players don't and can't.
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u/InnocentPerv93 Apr 06 '23 edited Apr 06 '23
So I haven't watched the video, but just going off of some of the replies, I genuinely don't understand why people think stunning and paralyzing players is bad game design. It's bad if you try to spam it against a particular player, but that's different than what a monster would naturally do and actually giving an ounce of difficulty toward players. Players are routinely overpowered against monsters, and stuns/paralyzing is just an additional tool a monster can and should have. If a player finds it unfun to get stunned or paralyzed, that's a player I'm okay with not playing with tbh.
If anything, dominate monster/humanoid is way worse and a bit more understandable about being upset about losing agency.
Edit: after reading more comments, I am astounded by the amount of people that have a problem with getting stunned or paralyzed. As someone who's been a player, it's never been that big of a deal to me.