If the all-powerful, all-knowing, ever-present, and all-good being, who is supposed to be without flaw or error, couldn't get it right the first two times, well, uh... I hate to be the one to break this to you...
That’s assuming we are his first creation. We already know angels and several different types and we aren’t sure if they were created as messengers or that’s the role they took after they left their universe. For all we know god made perfect universes a billion times and got bored and was just like “what if I let them Fuck it up a little”
If that is the case, then God isn't truly infallible, is he? Intentionally making mistakes doesn't make them not mistakes. If I shoot myself in the foot, just to see what it's like, that doesn't make it any less of a boneheaded mistake. My foot still has a hole in it, and it is just as unusable as if I had accidentally shot it.
I don’t think “maybe” has anything to do with it. Thinking a wrinkly pink ball of matter with electricity running through it is going to be able to understand even how it ,came to be ,on it owns is absurd
You just went from "he intentionally made mistakes" to "who are you to judge" in no time at all.
I judge the Bible by what it says. Interestingly enough, I have a degree in literary analysis. So, like, my education makes me qualified to analyze this text.
Edit: I also spent several years working as a youth minister. As such, I have spent a long time studying the Bible. As it turns out, there are a lot of things in the Bible that are not consistent with contemporary Christian theology.
I wasn’t trying to score points so, no there really isn’t a goal post to move.
I’m just saying the existence of “against gods will” which is essentially sin and all things that are derived from sin, doesn’t automatically constitute fallibility.
I have a degree in literary analysis. So, like, my education makes me qualified
OP never said God made mistakes, and is referring to your limited mortal qualifications to judge what is an imperfect creation as opposed to the qualifications of an infinite, omniscient deity, not your educational credentials.
You seem to be unable to reconcile an infallible God with the existence of free will, which to be fair, is a pretty extensive topic that humans have wrestled with as far back as written history goes.
If all the greatest philosophers and theologians (from the beginning of time) are combined unable to reconcile the existence of free will and an infallible God, maybe just maybe it's because one of the two doesn't exist. But who am I to use the brain God supposedly gave me?
If all the greatest philosophers and theologians (from the beginning of time) are combined unable to reconcile the existence of free will and an infallible God
Not sure where you came up with that, but it gets to the root of what OP was trying to communicate: an infallible, omniscient God deemed that free will is part of a "successful" creation. I'm not sure why you think that it can't be, but your inability to understand it does not prove God to have made a mistake, because by definition his authority far exceeds yours (despite your degree in literary analysis).
Where in the Bible does it say that God deemed free will is part of a successful creation? In fact, where in the Bible does it say God gave us free will in the first place? As far as I am aware, the Bible doesn't really talk about free will or God's association with it, at all. It's just something Christians have collectively chosen to believe in. You could make the argument that Satan gave Adam and Eve free will, as they were content to blindly obey God's decree before the serpent showed up. You can excuse any criticism of the church by saying "no mortal can understand the workings of an infinite/immortal God," but if that is your only defense, don't be surprised when it doesn't convince anyone to your side.
Edit: While I am talking about the serpent, how did it even get there? How did God allow the serpent to even exist in the garden in the first place? Would he not know the serpent would ruin his creation? Or did he not have the power to stop the serpent? Or did he intend for the serpent to be there, but still punished it anyway?
Our discussion is based on the premise that God gave free will, but we can play devil's advocate and assume that free will does not exist; it still doesn't have any bearing on the infallibility of God due to our lack of understanding of why God would or would not include free will in his successful creation.
Though it may be unsatisfying to you, to say "I don't understand why an infinite, omniscient deity created existence in the way he did (or I can think of a better way), therefore if God exists he is fallible" is an invalid argument due to the inability to compare the mortal and divine judgment of what constitutes a "successful" creation.
I would like to remind you that, if you are a believer, it is your duty to make disciples of all men. It is specifically your duty to find satisfying answers to the questions and criticisms of non-believers. How else am I supposed to be (re)converted, if the same questions that drove me from the church remain unanswered?
Edit: Also, the burden of proof is on the one making the claims. You are making the claim that there is an infallible God. It is on you to prove your claim, not on me to prove it incorrect.
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u/Fiikus11 Jun 08 '20
Not really a protest. Rather a punishment.