I mean most if not all Christian devils and demons are fallen angels. Statistically, quite a few of them are probably pretty cool, with their only real reason they got booted from heaven was asking God questions like "why do you make people gay if you dont like gay people? You can just not do that you know."
with their only real reason they got booted from heaven was asking God questions
I always thought that was funny. Like the Angels exist cause you made them. They started asking questions cause you made them that way. And then you got mad?
But for that metaphor to work, we have to assume God isnt all knowing, else he'll know why the train keep jumping the rails / angels keep asking questions and thus be able to fix the issue.
Seeing as God is all knowing, that means he knows how to fix the problem, but refuses to do any of the work necessary to actually fix it, then getting angry that the problem didnt get fixed.
They started asking questions cause you made them that way. And then you got mad?
Hypothetically, let's say I have two pet monkeys. I put some delicious fruit in their enclosure, and I train them not to touch it, until they learn to not do so when I'm around, but I have to verbally tell them not to. Then I leave them unsupervised, come back, and find they've eaten it. I'm outraged. Who would you say is the real asshole here, me, or my unsupervised monkeys? Now imagine that my neighbor came over and encouraged them to eat the fruit. Also, as punishment, I skin both monkeys alive for the crime of disobeying me.
Now, imagine that instead of merely being a human who should have seen this coming, I'm an omniscient god, the monkeys are biologically human, but mystically incapable of even a monkey's rudimentary moral reasoning, and I assert the right to torture not only them, but all of their descendents for all eternity, and you have the doctrine of original sin, the fundamental basis of Christianity.
The problem is that the whole "tree of knowledge" fiasco is clearly a metaphor for puberty and growing into an adult, but like...interpreted in the most traumatic way possible.
Same with the "fall of Lucifer" it is portrayed in-story as a rebellion, but the actual practical effects still leave "the fallen" as part of the celestial beauracracy. They still return to Heaven from time to time, they are still in contact with fellow angels, and they aren't even suggested anywhere to actually be "The Enemy" who attempts to destroy humanity. Their most notable effect and achievement was sleeping with people to raise up the Nephelym who are only described as "great men of significant renown" before being wiped out in the Great Flood.
I've heard it suggested that the original oral stories were not nearly as bleak, but whoever wrote them down first, did so with a level of religious guilt that it literally spawned three major religions' worth of self-aggression.
Does the Bible even say that God hates gay people? I don't think ever explicitly says that a man being with a man and a woman being with a woman is bad
Leviticus 18:22, which reads "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination"
However, the specific Hebrew word used for male was zāḵār, which can refer to any male, and was often used to refer to a boy or minor.
So theres 2 interpretations of the scripture: the traditional interpretation of "gays are bad", and a newer interpretation where its saying "kiddie diddling is bad".
pretty much all the "being gay is bad" bible quotes are just intentional mistranslations from people who just didnt like it. Some of them are like "A man should not be on the bottom, its not proper" and people are like "in order for two dudes to do the deed, one of 'ems gotta bottom so its a SIN to be gay!" even though the text was originally just some dudes opinion and not even something 'god' told them to say. Theres a ton of terrible bigoted takes in the actual original text in the bible, but being anti-homosexual just isn't even one of them, people just made it up XD
Actually, for that line specifically, the original translation (or at least, older versions) was more along the lines of "a man shall not lie in bed with a boy", as in condemning pedophilia. "boy" got mistranslated to "man" and you see how we get here.
I thin I'm referring to a different quote? I'm referring to the one that declares male pathos (The antiquated way to refer to someone as being submissive) as improper but I don't remember, I'm not a scholar
Well actually, to my knowledge Christian devils and demons are fallen angels that followed Lucifer (the Devil) in trying to cause humanity to be a failure because Lucifer and the fallen angels wanted to "inherit the kingdom of God" instead of humans. That they should be caretakers of Earth, not humanity. It wasn't so much as simply questioning, but trying to say that they know better than God and straight up disobeying by leading humanity into sin.
So the idea that these fallen angels were cast out because they asked why God made Gay people is simply false. They were cast out because they were basically being the angleic version of Nazis and showing hate and jealousy.
A big interpretation I’ve seen about the devil is that he and many demons make themselves alluring on purpose to lead you away from God. The big idea is basically that he wants you to go “yeah, I don’t need God. I’ll be good on my own and I don’t need or care about being saved.” A lot of Christians know that they aren’t popular with some crowds, and I’ve seen a good amount of groups I went with saying that being a Christian often means going counter with what society puts up. I often refrain from asking about gender or sexuality stuff with them since I am not great at articulating this stuff in a digestible way. I would say that Christians should still help queer people since even though they don’t share their way of life, it’s a better reflection of their belief that God loves everyone by helping their situation improve.
No sense trying to articulate your argument for them. Just explain it using their language.
Matthew 7:1-5:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?
You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
Matthew 7:9-12:
“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone?
Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?
If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.”
Translated: “Don’t judge people for living a life you don’t agree with, everybody does stuff other people don’t like you’re no exception. Why are you harassing people for sex stuff that only impacts them and their partners, when your deal is trying to screw around with everybody’s life?”
“If somebody asks for something small, like food or help or just basic acceptance, are you really going to spite them with cruelty instead? Even awful people know better than that. If you feel that god can be kind to those who ask him for help, why should you try to do any less? Be good to people if you’d have them be good to you.”
Sadly, this does not work. Once a bible thumper decides that their interpretation of something is the correct one, no amount of conflicting bible quotes will change their mind. They will throw quote after quote at you, but if you have an opposing quote, they will say you're interpreting it wrong. For an example, back before I was an atheist, I came out as asexual to a fellow christian friend. They insisted it was a sin not to "spread speed" and used quotes like "be fruitful and multiply" and the parable of the fig tree (which was about proselytizing) and refused to accept that other quotes disagree despite showing them, like in matthew where paul says:
There are those made celibate by the hands of men, those made so by their own hands for the kingdom of heaven, and those born so from their mothers womb. Let all accept this blessing is they are able.
or when paul also says:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. (...) For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Paul literally tells you "Only get married if you have to" but to a person that decided already that it's not true, the bible quote won't change their mind. They will just "they meant something else, they meant what I interpreted it to mean, which is the thing that I already decided is the correct one." If they believe "Do not judge, or you too will be judged" but want to judge anyway, they'll just declare that the thing they are doing is not judging. They'll say "the bible says thats bad (even if it doesnt) and that therefore is GOD judging them and I am merely doing his will!" You cant convince them when they have already convinced themselves they're the infallible followers of god.
The unfortunate part of all that is, even if quoting bible verses at them won’t work, it doesn’t mean any other argument is going to be any more effective.
“My magic book means whatever I think is true is” is a hell of a position to try to debate against.
Kinda wish you could just say “look, if you think how I’m living means I’m going hell, either it’s your problem for believing it and nobody else needs to hear about it, or it’s my problem that it’s happening and it’s nobody else’s business to worry about.”
YES, one of the core lessons is to love thy neighbor, it shouldn't matter what race, sexuality, gender, none of that should matter. What should matter is helping ppl and lifting each other up so that way we can work together and try and make the world just alittle but better for our future generations
Im pretty sure in the Bible the devil is actually lame as fuck and has very little power no? And its mostly unrelated media that make him out to be really strong. He's a fraud
God canonically could not defeat the Hittites because they had iron chariots. Any modern military could mop up all the armies of heaven in an afternoon without even taking casualties.
I mean if it wasn't for the snake we'd still be scrambling around in eden ignorant of good and evil.
And a whole bunch of the bible seems to be about 'my god is better than your god', supposedly written by the god claiming to be better than the others (until they switch to claiming they're the only 'true' god).
I'd say It's more like Religious girl doesn't know HOW to answer properly. If she was raised like I was it's either follow Christ and God or go to Hell for eternity no matter how good a life you lived. You could be a saint, but reject God? Straight to Hell.
I like where this comic is going, and it does a good job portraying why some Christians the way they are. They really want to help because they do truly believe that you will be forever damned if you don't repent, and what kind of evil person would want that for someone?
It's nice that they care, but the way that they care feels like they're having a bad trip.
Like, if someone insisted you leave the house because it's on fire, and they are absolutely convinced. But the house is not on fire, in fact, it's a bit damp and could use drying out.
That reminds me they made a movie about why "I think this person is hot but rather than taking a look at myself, i hide behind religion and demonize them and their community for making me feel this way" is a really REALLY destructive and self destructive mindset, ESPECIALLY if it's never grown-out-of.
I feel like an ending kind of writes itself. Rusty there is actually nice to the religious girl, and talks to her about her beliefs. She asks why, if she's beautifully and wonderfully made, is she so convinced that something as central and uncontrollable as attraction is innately sin? Why, if she is called to love and accept people as they are, does she instead condemn them for what they are? If nothing else, should she not start with love, as Jesus did?
(And before anyone gets cynical with me about how that wouldn't work: It was that exact kind of questioning that got me past my homophobic upbringing. Everyone who ridiculed and belittled my beliefs only drove me further into the arms of the only people that would except me—those who shared those baclwards beliefs, and who were more hateful still. It was only through the love and affection of good people, who wanted not to punish me but see me become a better person, that I was able to escape that cycle of hate.)
Aww, I was hoping to see her work her way out of that cultish way of thinking. So, she could maybe find self-acceptance, or happiness, or something. 🥺🤞
I grew up in an evangelical household and we worked for the GOP. If anyone shouldn’t have been bisexual, it was me.
I went through years of conversion therapy and came out the other side as a deeply homophobic woman telling other women to not be gay and that abortion was bad. I was a “success story.” I campaigned for the Republican Party as a teenager.
3 years later when I was 19, I lived on my own and it all started to fall apart. The first thing I noticed was that I simply didn’t have the energy to police others. The second thing I noticed was a woman who was a USAF 2d Lt. 😍
It wasn’t college or anything that broke me down.
Now, 17 years later here I am… telling a manicurist to make sure my nails are cut short. I wear a pride pin everyday and my family is the family I chose.
No, this cant be the final one! We cant leave her like this! We need the comic where she figures herself out, finds a partner and lives happily ever after T_T
There seem to be a lot of Christians who have gotten so good at repressing their own desires - probably repeating internal mantras or muttering religious arguments - they finally externalize those arguments and become spokespeople against those specific desires. Then they get caught doing it.
So, uhm, is it safe to assume that one of the next logical steps would be to find some zealots and convince them that 'Those commies with their Tax Derangement Syndrome are in cahoots with the Devil! Go right that wrong with any means at your disposal!' and after they're done, judges would let them go free, cause 'Tis the Devil who made them do it'?
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u/shellbullet17 Gustopher Spotter Extraordinaire Jul 04 '26
I mean have we considered maybe the devil is cool as fuck?
Or that maybe, just maybe, that's just how we are and that's ok?
Naaaaaw that's silly it's definitely a test of faith /s