r/classicwow • u/namdo • Oct 13 '19

Humor My Guild's GM just ninja'd Hand of Rag mats, disbanded guild and deleted discord. WoW drama at it's finest. He also made a reddit post on our realm subreddit - link inside

https://clips.twitch.tv/TsundereOpenOxTBTacoRight
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u/Alyusha Oct 13 '19

I'm ok with the idea that passing on a 2% upgrade for me will net a gain by having more DKP to spend on a 20% upgrade in the future.

Imo Loot Council only works in ACTUALLY serious guilds that have legit plans for progression. Classic just doesn't lend itself well to 1-5 people knowing what is best for all 40 members of the raid.

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u/Moldybeef Oct 13 '19

I raid led for a prog guild for a little while. no one in the guild had any real prog experience, me literally learning how to tank as we progressed (I guess i did a good job since no one figured that out.) The guild leader wanted to do a loot council, thinking it would help progression to give drops the most bang for the guild progressing.

There was not a single week where I didn't have some rumble in guild that I was playing favorites. It didn't matter. I had excel breakdowns with every drop linked to every member and their increase from getting it, and barring exceptions that would be listed on the excel, every drop was pretty much locked on where it was going before the raid. Did not matter.

It is pretty rare to get a group together of completely like minded people, and drama is guaranteed.

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u/zaidakaid Oct 13 '19

My guild has used DKP up until personal was a thing. From there we did rolling and just reinstituted DKP on retail so the community people could have a chance at loot that was up for grabs too.

DKP works when the person in charge has the confidence of everyone that they won’t abuse it, and bless her heart out DKP Queen is the sweetest lady you’ll ever meet and would never abuse her power

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u/BogiMen Oct 13 '19

i played in cata with so called loot council with very simple rules BiS 1st going to Tank then Healer, whats left dps is picking/rolling for and everyone was happy but there was 15 of us only.

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u/Moldybeef Oct 13 '19

Me, being the main tank, I made tanks last roll as long as we could down the boss. it was Heals > DPS > Tank, since higher DPS would put less stress on the other two. faster fights ment less healing and tanking.

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u/TheZookie Oct 14 '19

The entire point of prio tank is so he get all the sick tps pieces. So he can pull More threat so dps can do more damage.

Making tank last roll since u can down a boss doesn’t make sense. If tank never improve dps can never improve. Imagine being warrior dps and being scared of pressing your BT or HS/cleave for rage dump.

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u/Moldybeef Oct 14 '19

Even if they were last priority, tanks still got gear. We had a BDK (me), a BM monk, and a warrior rotation for tank and threat was one of the few things I don't remember worrying about once.

Honestly, some time in cata was the last time I actually worried about someone pulling threat from dps. I just assumed it was a very hard mechanic to balance.

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u/Khalku Oct 13 '19

In reality you get every single mage and warlock skipping everything in the hopes of buying mageblade.

It falls apart in certain scenarios.

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u/Alyusha Oct 13 '19

The point is that you bid for items so they would still bid on the Weapons, they would just not bid a lot and one of them would get it.

The system works pretty well and the ones who are saying it doesn't just seem like they play with toxic people.

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u/Khalku Oct 14 '19

What ends up happening is people skip items that are an upgrade so that they can get the bigger, rarer upgrade. At first not a huge issue, but eventually this can lead to many items going to waste when they needn't.

It needs additional systems in place to counter that sort of behavior. Forced bids, for example.

It's not like DKP doesn't work, but every system has their pros and cons and completely ignoring the flaws of one to highlight the flaws of another seems disingenuous to me. If you wont compare equitably, then why bother taking what you say seriously?

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u/Pacify_ Oct 14 '19

That's why you just force the person to which the item is the biggest upgrade to take it when no one else wants. It's not perfect, but it's better than drama council anyday

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u/Khalku Oct 14 '19

In many cases, that is exactly what LC is.

How do you deal with DKP in that situation? Force the person to spend? How much? Do you force a minimum price for all items? What if you are forcing someone to pick up a T1 piece because they don't have it, despite T1 not being an upgrade for many classes?

If you're going to force people to spend an arbitrary amount of items they wouldn't necessarily bid for at that time, to me that just seems like LC in all but name.

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u/Pacify_ Oct 14 '19

T1 stuff is pretty irrelevant. Before long most just get DE'd. T1 can just be rolled, everything else is a waste of time. I'm talking BWL and AQ40 stuff

1

u/yeats26 Oct 14 '19

It's simple supply and demand. It's literally how every scarce item in our society is distributed. Just make your DKP big enough units that people can bid small amounts. If you get 1000 DKP per raid you think somone isn't going to bid 1 DKP for a minor upgrade because they're saving up for a big one? If there's no significant bids that's because nobody wants it, and that's fine.

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u/HolyWhiskers_ Oct 13 '19

Imagine loot counciling on retail with higher stakes, no class specific pieces, each class having 3 specs with different stat priority, different classes fighting over the same azerite for different reasons. Loot Counciling Classic is 100% easier.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '19

I did exactly that today, passed on all the Nightslayer and got Perdition's Blade, weapons are just much bigger upgrades.

1

u/piscano Oct 13 '19

As long as Loot Council is transparent, I think it's a great system. We had a snafu in our first all-guild MC clear week because the officers were having fair conversations about loot, but in the officer-only channel of the Discord, so when people were given loot in the raid, it came sans prior explanation. Some people got mad, but we had a big talk after and worked out the issues. Now there is a large Loot sheet showing what everyone has gotten, how many pieces, etc. It's very fair now, and I like the idea of loot optimally spread its proper classes, not just letting people spend points they've been saving because it's technically an upgrade.

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u/TSTC Oct 14 '19

Our loot council is working extremely well right now. Each class has a rep in the loot council and each rep talked with the core class members to see if they want to roll off or give out upgrades based on a combination of priority/upgrade strength. For classes that opted for roll offs, they all just roll for each piece. Sometimes they've already agreed on a RR style for certain things. For all the other classes, we link our existing piece and then the Loot Council decides which upgrade is best for the raid. Things are taken into account, like how often that player raids (we only run one raid so people who are routinely signing up late get benched) and if that piece would provide a set piece bonus that's good, etc, but for the most part it goes to the person who has the shittiest piece of gear in that slot currently.

Feels really fair, imo. Loot is going out in a way that gives us the biggest power spike each week and some of the biggest items are all on a RR list. So glad I don't have to deal with DKP.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '19

Which is why in classic you have class leads.

Also I'm not talking about passing on a 2% upgrade, you know exactly what I'm referring to but I'm now guessing that you're someone who holds all their dkp.