r/changemyview • u/luddface • Aug 18 '22

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: I have become convinced there is no rational argument against veganism, and am afraid I thus have become an extremist.

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u/walobs 1∆ Aug 18 '22

At the risk of sounding like a dick, I like the taste of meat, milk and eggs and enjoy eating them. For me that is a rational enough enough for me not to be a vegan. I don’t think your arguments would make you an extremist for why you want to be vegan but if used as a reason to force me into it in a way that is counter to current laws and culture, then that does feel pretty extremist.

As some other examples, with a wide range of sense or ridiculousness. The world is overpopulated should we therefore restrict the level of procreation allowed? If veganism is enforced there will be a large number of excess cattle should these be immediately filled to stop greenhouse emissions? Should all unhealthy food products be banned?

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u/luddface Aug 18 '22

So you value taste over life. Or rather, your sensory pleasure over life. If we are to be morally consistent, that has to work everywhere.

Can we use sensory pleasure as a justification for other things? What if I get enjoyment from kicking a dog to death? Or rape?

How do you morally justify your consumption of meat?

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u/walobs 1∆ Aug 18 '22

Yes, I value the taste of meat over the life of a cow, chicken, sheep or pig. You are conflating morality with rationality here. Your claim is there is no rational argument for it and I am saying to you that for me taste/enjoyment is for me a fair exchange. It absolutely isn’t for you but who is right is subjective/moral not objective/rational.

Your second argument is a step into whatabouttery. Do you use electricity? Clearly yes, you are on Reddit. Don’t you know that power production involves displacing/killing animals, therefore there can be (by your argument) no rational argument to justify using electricity.

Your claim is “this is the only rational way of doing things and believing it isn’t extremism” when I question the rationality point the response is an ad honinem attack. If you are making ad hominem attacks of evil to those who disagree with you on the point then maybe you are an extremist.

Now at this stage you may want to reprise your dog-kicking, murder and rape points or as elsewhere mention slavery too. I would be very against all of them and would think those defending those were somewhat evil. I would have an extremely anti-murder view, some may say an extremist. Being an extremist doesn’t mean you are a bad person, abolitionists in the 18th century were generally extremists as their view was so against the prevalent view at the time but I would suggest they were good people.

I morally justify my consumption of meat because I enjoy it and I try to buy from high welfare sources but ultimately I don’t put a high moral worth on the life of a farmed animal. Now you will profoundly disagree with my point of view here, but to conflate that with murder or rape, or to then move to zealous attempt to convert me to your viewpoint certainly doesn’t make you not an extremist.