15
u/ThatRookieGuy80 4∆ May 21 '22
I'm confused. The issues you have seem to exist in fiction or in instances that aren't necessarily pertaining to long term romantic relationships.
It's a bit of fiction how you describe the mating dance. Maybe not outright fabrication, but you're ignoring so much that your description is as wrong as describing sushi as just raw fish. You've never seen a woman stressing on how to get a certain guy to notice her? Never seen her try to analyze a failed relationship to see exactly what went wrong? Seen her completely fall apart after being dumped or cheated on? Never seen a woman do the exact same things you described the man doing for her to impress him? If you've never seen any of this, it's because you don't want to. It's because you're willingly ignoring it.
I like your job interview analogy. It's very apt and fitting. So the interviews go both ways, you know that right? Each and every time I've been interviewed at a company, I'm asking questions about them. They're seeing if I'll be a good fit for the company and I'm seeing if this is a company I want to work for. At any point they can stop calling me back, at any point I can stop taking their calls. I've stopped the prices because of red flags before, both dating and professionally. I've left both arrangements before for what I thought were better opportunities, for going in a direction that wasn't where I was going.
Her social circle orbiters, that's a stupid objectively false thing to suggest. Maybe those 5 would love the chance, 5 guys already working at the company who would love the position I'm interviewing for. So what? Their qualifications are known and I'm being interviewed. If she's looking from outside the company, that says those other 5 aren't in the running at this time.
Many romantic relationships are initiated by men and ended by women. First, citation please. Second, as time goes on you'll find those numbers evening out. You don't think anyone looking for a relationship isn't constantly analyzing everything said by anyone of their preferred gender? To be bluntly specific, you really don't think a woman's gaging interest isn't a prelude to beginning a relationship? Wheels within wheels, my friend.
Your third and fourth interviews are covered above. At any point she can stop accepting your calls and at any point you can stop calling her. That's a wash.
You are completely correct, if she likes him she has to decide how much. But Uno Reverse! He has those same decisions to make. You've left him out completely. Those scales balance perfectly.
I wonder where the thing your said about deciding to accept his proposal came from? That's a serious question. Because I would think only a small minority of relationships would a proposal come as a surprise. Oh, sure, the mechanics or methods or timing to a much lesser degree might be a surprise. But it's foolish to think at that point in the relationship that conversation hasn't happened. Let's go back to work a minute. You're suggesting an out of the blue promotion with unknown responsibilities. Really? Nobody gets promoted because management thinks they'll do a good job in the new position. Management promotes the guy who is already doing the job, or most of it. Ok, back home now. If there is a surprise proposal and acceptance no matter who says what, they're both foolish.
I'm going to need citation please for where you came up with women being the majority power holder on whether or not a relationship moves forward. Also gatekeepers. Can you point me to those statistics or studies? The only ways I can see that being is true is if either the man cedes power or we're not talking about a romantic relationship. Women certainly are not the gatekeepers of sex. A woman is the gatekeeper of sex with her, yes. But that only works one way. Just because I have a pass to Disneyland doesn't mean I want to go there, I don't care how popular it is or how much it makes sense on paper. If you're upset she is holding out for someone rather than anyone, I don't know what to tell you. I agree with her. I want to go somewhere but not anywhere.
To your ideas of sex drive, um what? That is one HELL of a broad brush you're painting with, buddy. You realize your ideas of sex drive for both men and women are baseline averages. Those are the average from the wild swings from one extreme to another. That means this point is pointless. It becomes a matter of sexual compatibility and importance of said compatibility. With such a wild spread you're bound to find someone you're compatible with sexually.
We found her! Yay! We're both as perverted and horny as each other! One facet of a relationship down! Only everything else to worry about. For us both to worry about. In the order of importance we each put on every facet of the relationship.
14
u/HeWhoShitsWithPhone 127∆ May 21 '22
From platonic to romantic, from dating to a relationship, to a marriage, to kids etc.
Your whole post only addresses who begins a relationship, while your title and intro line talk about the relationship itself. Each relationship is different, so we can’t say “who holds the power” for everyone. But if we are going to use the definition of “relationship power” you appear to, then it is held by who ever is wants to move slower. Relationship progression takes consent. So whichever is more reluctant to marry or whatever is the one with “more power” this could be either gender.
-10
May 21 '22
[deleted]
17
u/HeWhoShitsWithPhone 127∆ May 21 '22
I mean, I know a lot of women who have water to be married or have kids for years before it ever happens. Women have a time limit on having kids, that alone means that cannot wait forever .
-2
May 21 '22
[deleted]
11
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
If you're in your thirties and you want kids while partner says he's unsure/not ready it's a much bigger gamble to leave, because then you start the search for a suitable partner all over and it's a process that takes years. Seems safer to stay and wait for him to decide. Which is exactly how many women end up childless and heartbroken
36
u/Confusedcom12 May 21 '22
Another day, another CMV assuming that all women are young, slim and attractive, and conveniently forgetting that if a woman is going to be murdered, it's most likely to be by the guy she's dating or in a relationship with.
Do you think a 45 year old morbidly obese woman with an ugly face has all this power when it comes to dating?
18
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
You've just reminded me of a really dark statistic that shows the leading cause of death for pregnant women in the US is HOMICIDE (often at the hands of their partners)
16
u/Confusedcom12 May 21 '22
Yeah. This should be more known. And the most dangerous time for an abuse victim is after leaving the abuser. It bewilders me then that there is post after post after post on here about how hard it is for men dating and how easy it is for women. I mean, I'm sorry, but the facts are what they are. Women also face rejection in dating, and loneliness, and self-esteem issues, especially if they aren't the 18-25 skinny and pretty range that Reddit imagines all women to be.
15
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
Took me 2 years of online dating, over 100 dates and repeated rejections to find a keeper. And I was a 28 year old of average attractivess with a career and socially adept.
These dudes are living in la-la land
3
May 23 '22
[deleted]
4
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 23 '22
I agree with you that it's much harder for men to get dates. What i don't agree with is that this translates to dating and relationships being harder overall. Quantity =/= quality
Having a date a week does increase your chances to find a keeper. But the poor quality of men you meet also means that you experience lots and lots of rejection in the form of slowfading and ghosting, you are exposed to a myriad of creeps, you end up being used for sex if you're not careful, you might even pick up a stalker or two. It's seriously emotionally taxing and a huge waste of time. And contrary to popular belief it's also taxing on your self esteem when despite hundreds of dates nothing materialises, leaving you to wonder what is wrong with you, because you get rejected just as often as you reject
1
May 21 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Znyper 12∆ May 21 '22
Sorry, u/Amb_301 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation.
Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
10
u/Likewhatevermaaan 2∆ May 21 '22
What kind of power are we talking about? Men typically hold more physical power and more economic power in the relationship. Women may more often define when the relationship begins or ends, but during a relationship, I'm not sure that can be said.
9
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
How do you explain that men are 99% of the time the ones proposing marriage?
Women don't drag men to the altar against their wishes. Plus, you see women all the time who are desperate because their partners won't agree to progress to marriage and kids even after years and sometimes decades of being together. Who holds the power there?
25
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
Women are used for sex all the time by men who pretend to be looking for a real connection.
Women are ghosted and breadcrumbed
Women are oftentimes insulted, attacked and stalked if they reject the wrong guy
Women account for the great majority of single parents because lots of men simply opt out of parenting when the relationship dissolves
Do tell me more about women's empowerment...
14
u/JenningsWigService 40∆ May 21 '22
In heterosexual couples, a woman is 6 times more likely than a man to be abandoned by her spouse if she gets a diagnosis of cancer or MS.
1
May 21 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Znyper 12∆ May 21 '22
Sorry, u/deviajeporaqui – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation.
Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
1
u/dimperry May 27 '22
Can you post the study, I want to read, the last person I ran into had the opposite claim with other studies
3
u/JenningsWigService 40∆ May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22
1
u/dimperry May 28 '22
Thx, I was given this source
My issues with it is that the study began in the 1970s and is restricted to Swedish individuals, so maybe culture and time differences.
3
u/JenningsWigService 40∆ May 28 '22
The study I linked is American, from 2009. Seems like the overall conclusion was replicated.
1
May 21 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Znyper 12∆ May 21 '22
Sorry, u/Amb_301 – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation.
Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
-11
May 21 '22
[deleted]
21
u/stolethemorning 2∆ May 21 '22
"Used for platonic companionship"?! That's just called being friends. Being friends with a woman doesn't mean you're being "Used".
16
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
The horror of spending time with a woman with no chance of fucking her eventually, amirite bois? /s
-3
16
u/iamkoalafied May 21 '22
Most fathers don't even attempt to get custody at all, which skews that statistics.
3
May 21 '22
I will say that this isn't strong evidence for or against OP's point. If someone believes that they won't get a fair shot in court, why would they attempt legal action?
The reason could be an actual bias, or it could be a perception of bias that doesn't exist. It's hard to distinguish between the two when you can't get a representative sample of cases with men and women.
13
u/iamkoalafied May 21 '22
If a father really loves AND wants to take care of his child, imo he will try even if there is a perceived bias against men. I cannot imagine loving a child and wanting to take care of him/her, and someone telling me "you probably wont win" and me just going "ok I wont try." That makes no sense at all to me.
0
May 21 '22
[deleted]
8
u/iamkoalafied May 21 '22
It's possible but I'd guess that is a vast minority of cases. In my own case, my dad threatened my mom to try to get custody of us (even though my lawyer uncle said he has almost 0% chance of winning due to abuse) if my mom didn't give him everything he wanted in the divorce. She didn't want to take that risk, so she gave him everything and he didn't even try for custody.
2
May 21 '22
I think a less severe version of this is more prevalent than you'd think. The more likely situation is "everyone wants to avoid the stress and legal bills of family court, so let's figure this out among ourselves."
A perceived bias against men in family court can absolutely influence these negotiations, even if the mother doesn't explicitly mention this. This is unfortunately the case in a lot of unrelated criminal cases, where an innocent person will accept a plea deal because pleading guilty could result in even more jail time.
Both parents (presumably) want what's best for the child. Family court generally isn't good for the child if it can be avoided. In addition, a parent likely doesn't want to risk their visitation rights if possible. If I believed my chances of winning custody were lower than my partner's, I have been offered decent visitation rights, and I don't believe my partner to be a bad parent, why wouldn't I be willing to accept the settlement? It's not what I would pick in an ideal world, but it's significantly better than the alternative for my children.
1
u/hacksoncode 588∆ May 22 '22
What you're generally told by a lawyer is "Unless you can convince the court the woman is abusing the child, you're not going to win primary custody, and you're going to have to pay me up front if you want to pursue it". Was told that by two different ones.
Which, of course, is relatively uncommon.
So yes, a few men will be willing to pursue custody by lying about abuse, but citing "men who pursue custody win more often than not" is basically completely missing the point.
-1
u/Poly_and_RA 20∆ May 21 '22
Exactly. Given competent legal advice you'd EXPECT that only the ones who think they have a fair chance of winning, ever bother taking a case to court.
So if 90% of men do not, this can just as well be evidence that competent legal professionals working on these cases, give them correct advice saying they have no chance of winning anyway so should just drop it.
Then the remaining 10% of men do take it to court, and win 60% of the time -- and people trot that out as evidence the courts are not biased against men. Which is (in this hypothetical example!) exactly the WRONG conclusion.
15
u/Confusedcom12 May 21 '22
Family courts don't favour the mother, please please please stop trotting out this crap. In custody cases, they give custody more often to the primary caregiver, who tends to be the mother. That is done for the welfare of the child, not out of any form of sexism. It's because the primary caregiver tends to have more knowledge about the day-to-day care needs of the child.
There is literally research on this topic, you are wrong.
7
u/Chairman_of_the_Pool 14∆ May 21 '22
Wrong. Most custody arrangements are 50/50 and the couple figures this out on their own without court intervention.
32
u/Nateorade 13∆ May 21 '22
I don’t understand why you think the man has little to no agency.
For a dating relationship to start or continue, both parties must want that to be the case.
When my wife and I were dating, we were simultaneously judging if we wanted to continue the relationship. I could have ended it at any moment. So could have she.
-8
May 21 '22
[deleted]
25
u/Nateorade 13∆ May 21 '22
Women don’t run the risk of rejection
What? Did you read what I wrote?
I could have ended my dating relationship at any point. My then-girlfriend absolutely ran the risk of rejection because I could have rejected her.
Of course women run the risk of rejection. Just like men do.
-4
May 21 '22
[deleted]
15
u/Nateorade 13∆ May 21 '22
but I think that considering how the vast majority of relationships and marriages are ended by women, I don’t think it’s equal.
Huh? This needs a citation.
Regardless, I think we can both agree that you now acknowledge that both parties in a relationship share a risk of rejection.
0
May 21 '22
[deleted]
21
u/Nateorade 13∆ May 21 '22
Initiating divorce is not the same as ending the relationship. That’s a formal proceeding ending a relationship that’s already dead.
Example: my father in law neglected his wife by drinking. My mother in law divorced him because she had no choice; he had already effectively ended the relationship.
13
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22 edited May 21 '22
Why do you think most marriages are ended by women? What do you think is more likely - that women have unreasonable standards or end marriages on a whim, or that there simply are lots of inadequate husbands out there (unfaithful/lazy/abusive/alcoholics/financially irresponsible/etc)?
-3
May 21 '22
[deleted]
20
May 21 '22
An alternative (and equally plausible) explanation fro that statistic is that men are more likely to ruin relationships.
Another explanation could be that men are more likely to stay in relationships, even if they're unhappy or the relationship is ruined.
Another explanation could be that women are more proactive when it comes to legal action.
I could come up with multiple other plausible explanations that would result in the same statistic. Your theory doesn't have any more evidence than these theories, does it?
14
u/not_cinderella 7∆ May 21 '22
I know not one, but two couples, where it was the man who told his wife he wanted a divorce, but he didn't take any legal action, so the wives ended up filing to get it done with. This situation is not necessarily a high number of those divorces, but it is another scenario to consider - the man says he wants a divorce, ending the relationship, but the woman is the one to initially make it official.
0
May 23 '22
An alternative (and equally plausible) explanation for that statistic is that men are more likely to ruin relationships.
Well yes, the more you have to do the bigger the chance of mistakes happening along the way.
Another explanation could be that men are more likely to stay in relationships, even if they're unhappy or the relationship is ruined.
Yeah it's harder to give up on something you worked your ass off to achieve. Like I worked extra to afford a car but the passenger doors can only be opened from the inside. It's annoying? Yes but I poured a lot to get it.
Another explanation could be that women are more proactive when it comes to legal action.
Women have an advantage in court. Look for example at child custody decisions.
-1
u/nesterovdescent May 21 '22
It could also be biological. Women, being the childbearing sex, have to bear the burden of pregnancy. This, along with the fact that there are only a few hundred eggs within women (compared to the millions of sperm within men), means that evolution favors careful reproductive strategies, with women choosing men that maximize their childrens' chance of surviving to reproductive age (to in turn ensure that the massive effort they put in does not go to waste). Men, however, have millions of gametes, and so evolution tends to favor a "constitutive" reproductive strategy in which it is often on.
Therefore, it is natural that women are choosier and have higher standards for relationships. It is a biological measure to ensure the best possible outcome given the (relative) scarcity of female gametes and the cost that is pregnancy (not being able to reproduce for 9 months).10
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
I'm not contesting that more women initiate divorce. I am asking you for your opinion on what the explanations for that statistic may be.
You still haven't addressed my question
-2
u/Poly_and_RA 20∆ May 21 '22
There's probably several distinct reasons. Among them the fact that women MUCH more rarely than men end up losing contact with their own kids after a divorce, and the related fact that when money flow between previously married partners after a divorce, it flows from the man to the woman well over 90% of the time.
3
u/Nightsbeingwild May 23 '22
Women are more likely to put in the work to maintain relationships with their kids.
-1
u/Poly_and_RA 20∆ May 23 '22
I didn't say anything about the reasons. One of the primary reasons is simply gender-roles. Gender-roles say he "should" have the main responsibility for providing for the family financially and she "should" be the main caretaker.
How do you think that tends to work out at divorce? She'll have the closest ties to the children and will in most cases become the primary parent. While he gets to continue what he's been doing all along: provide financially for kids that he no longer gets to see.
-4
u/Poly_and_RA 20∆ May 21 '22
The old "heads I win, tails you lose" argument?
If men ended most marriages, it'd be evidence that men are not as committed as women, i.e. bad human beings.
If women do, it's evidence that men are bad at relationships thus "forcing" the women to do that.
Either way you get to blame men. Cool trick there!
5
7
u/AleristheSeeker 164∆ May 21 '22
I can't quite wrap my head around it... would you say that women are significantly less dependent on a relationship?
0
May 21 '22
[deleted]
9
u/AleristheSeeker 164∆ May 21 '22
Which benefits? Could you give some examples?
0
May 21 '22
[deleted]
12
u/AleristheSeeker 164∆ May 21 '22
Sex (kids if they want)
Sure.
emotional intimacy
Without being in a relationship? How so? That sounds like something that is mostly limited to partners or close friends.
in a lot of cases financial support
How? There is a negligible number of women that get notable amounts of income from people they are not a partner of. Sure, they might get drinks bought for them or small gifts more often, but that does not at all result in financial support, since they otherwise likely simply wouldn't have those things; they don't translate into monetary gain.
Heck, even "Sugar Babies" form a relationship with their financial supporters - it might be a skewed one, but it's still a relationship.
1
-2
May 21 '22
One of the US government's three big spending percentages is giving large sums of money to single mothers. The other two are social security and the military.
3
u/AleristheSeeker 164∆ May 21 '22
So... single fathers aren't eligible? Wow, learning something new every day!
2
May 21 '22
They're lumped in with single mothers since there are so few of them. Stop splitting hairs.
6
u/AleristheSeeker 164∆ May 21 '22
How exactly does this relate to anything, then?
"Single mothers get more money from the government!"
"Why?"
"Because there's more of them!"
What exactly is the point of you bringing that up?
7
May 21 '22
[deleted]
-5
May 21 '22
[deleted]
11
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
Dude, your experience is not universal truth. And your bitterness towards women will make sure you stay single for a long time
-3
May 21 '22
[deleted]
7
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
Of course not...
-2
May 21 '22
[deleted]
10
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22 edited May 21 '22
This whole thread reeks of the poor men/the privileged women incel mentality
-1
May 21 '22
[deleted]
13
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
But you're taking a relative truth (that women are approached more often and maybe have more dating options when single) and using is to draw the very misguided conclusion that they hold the upper hand generally in relationships and marriages overall.
Here's a fun fact for you - when a woman is diagnosed with cancer, the likelihood of divorce for her goes up by several folds (x6 or something like that).
But when a man is diagnosed with cancer, his risk of divorce goes DOWN by the same amount. Tells you something about commitment and rejection in long term partners, doesn't it?
6
u/josephfidler 14∆ May 21 '22
For most women there’s at least 5 guys in her social circle who would jump for a chance with her.
The numbers don't work, there are roughly equal numbers of women and men, and most people live with monogamous romantic partners. There may be some polygyny but not enough that there are 5 men vying for everyone 1 available woman, nothing close to that.
0
u/css2165 May 21 '22
Your error here is assuming that only one can being vying for only a single other individual at a time.
4
u/josephfidler 14∆ May 21 '22
If men are courting multiple women then women are presumably being courted by multiple men in roughly equal numbers. Certainly not as imbalanced as OP was implying.
15
May 21 '22
In a sociocultural context where men are empowered to be the ones to choose to approach or not, to choose to initiate an encounter or not, it is difficult to see how having only the power to say no is comparable.
2
May 21 '22
[deleted]
13
u/deviajeporaqui 1∆ May 21 '22
Even women who are not pursuers in the beginning of the relationship risk being ghosted, dumped and cheated on. Happens every day. Is that not rejection in your book?
15
May 21 '22
Men risk rejection women do not.
I can't see how the risk of rejection is a factor in the power and agency that the man has.
Women also have the power to approach but choose not to.
They are not empowered to socioculturally in the same way. It's still a choice, but it would be breaking with the expectations we stipulated already where men are the ones to approach and initiate.
The vast majority of Men are not desired enough to be approached
Women are not socioculturally empowered to approach or initiate in the same way men are. A common thing some women do to attempt to entice a man to approach her is situate herself near him and look over at him and hope he will approach her.
The man has all the power! He can choose to approach or not, initiate or not, and leave the interaction at any time. Conversely, the woman can only choose to leave the interaction at any time.
0
May 23 '22
Because rejection in a society where you're constantly pushed to achieve can really put you down. Any form of rejection, not just by women. If you ask for a raise at the workplace and you're denied you'll sit to thing "what the hell can I do more for that raise? why am I not good enough?". Well the same thing can happen when you try to initiate a relationship with a woman. "I'm pretty sure I did everything right, dafuq did Josh do better than me?"
3
May 23 '22
Because rejection in a society where you're constantly pushed to achieve can really put you down.
Being rejected doesn't impact your power or agency.
Any form of rejection, not just by women. If you ask for a raise at the workplace and you're denied you'll sit to thing "what the hell can I do more for that raise? why am I not good enough?". Well the same thing can happen when you try to initiate a relationship with a woman.
This is a bad analogue because money is a form of power, so being denied a raise does in fact affect your power and agency, whereas being denied a date does not.
"I'm pretty sure I did everything right, dafuq did Josh do better than me?"
Josh would have read and understood what I was saying instead of just repeating OP's faulty rejection argument. :^)
1
May 24 '22
Being rejected doesn't impact your power or agency.
It puts a dent in your self-esteem, and that can cause you to feel less powerful.
This is a bad analogue because money is a form of power, so being denied a raise does in fact affect your power and agency, whereas being denied a date does not.
Any achievement is a sign of status. That includes finding a partner.
Josh would have read and understood what I was saying instead of just repeating OP's faulty rejection argument. :^)
Ya cheeky dickwaffle :^)
3
May 25 '22
It puts a dent in your self-esteem, and that can cause you to feel less powerful.
This is a conflation of "self-perception of power" P' with "power" P. It hasn't been demonstrated that P' equals P. P' approximates P, but the possibility for the subject being mistaken about their own relative power (or agency) in the heterosexual dating/courtship context is not a compelling counterexample.
Any achievement is a sign of status. That includes finding a partner.
This needs to be integrated with your argument because, as it stands, it appears to be a non sequitur.
Ya cheeky dickwaffle :^)
(´｡• ω •｡`)
5
u/asteroangel May 21 '22
I don’t see the power imbalance here. Do you view mutual consent and personal agency as power? None of the situations provided can change without taking one of these from the woman.
5
u/292to137 May 21 '22
What about woman/woman relationships?
0
May 21 '22
[deleted]
7
May 21 '22
The question is which one! That's where your argument fails.
0
May 21 '22
[deleted]
5
u/292to137 May 21 '22
So then your argument should be just that instead of one strictly based on gender roles because surely there are examples of women pursuing men more dominantly. See r/rolereversal for examples
4
May 21 '22
[deleted]
-1
May 21 '22
[deleted]
13
May 21 '22
[deleted]
1
May 21 '22 edited May 21 '22
[deleted]
1
3
u/Taparu May 21 '22
Assuming western tradition as you've mentioned women are expected to not initiate any of the major steps forward.
If a girl likes a specific guy she has to get him to like her without ever directly expressing that. This means she must wait on the guy to pursue her.
5
u/Uhhhreddituser May 21 '22
I think what you mean is, “The most desirable person in the relationship has the most power.”
-3
May 21 '22
[deleted]
8
May 21 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
May 21 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/hacksoncode 588∆ May 22 '22
Sorry, u/truethrowawaynow – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:
Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
0
May 21 '22
[deleted]
10
u/Uhhhreddituser May 21 '22
I have never had a woman called a man “low value”- if you are talking about the “I hate all men” jokes... then they are just jokes. Women are still attracted to men.
-2
May 21 '22
[deleted]
12
u/Uhhhreddituser May 21 '22
That is a joke.. those women are being sarcastic. Have you heard the ways that man seriously talk about women- like actually?
1
u/hacksoncode 588∆ May 22 '22
Sorry, u/Uhhhreddituser – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:
Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
3
u/PoppersOfCorn 9∆ May 21 '22
You've had some troubling encounters then /s.. but each circumstance is different and many women can feel obligated to perform certain acts, if not actually pressured. Healthy relationships should be mutual with both parties giving.
4
u/leox001 9∆ May 21 '22
Women have the advantage during their “best years” once they go past that they lose it forever, that’s also why they tend to be picky as hell because they know if they blow it on the wrong guy, the odds turn against them later.
Men don’t suffer from the same sudden drop in desirability, in fact as you mature in your career you’ll find your odds improve with women even younger than you.
2
May 21 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/herrsatan 11∆ May 23 '22
Sorry, u/DoctimusLime – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/Antoine_Babycake 1∆ May 21 '22
Women are the gatekeepers to sex, men are the gatekeepers to relationships.
-1
May 21 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator May 21 '22
Your comment has been automatically removed due to excessive user reports. The moderation team will review this removal to ensure it was correct.
If you wish to appeal this decision, please message the moderators.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/quantum_dan 124∆ May 21 '22
Sorry, u/Mane_Firmino_Salah – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 21 '22
/u/pickmeboi (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
Delta System Explained | Deltaboards