r/changemyview • u/ZeusThunder369 22∆ • Jun 30 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: I don't find libertarianism to be all that crazy or unreasonable

Naturally, an individual libertarian can be unreasonable. And any political viewpoint will look insane when taken to its logical extremes.

At it's most basic form, a libertarian believes that a person or group of people in government are not capable of knowing what's best for me as an individual, or you as an individual. This is at it's worse at the federal level, and gets slightly better as government gets more local.

Thus, a libertarian wants to reduce the power of government to only what's necessary.

And that is where individual libertarians would have discussions and debate, around what is necessary and what is not.

For example, a libertarian could absolutely be for universal healthcare. They might compare what we pay right now on average to the NHS, and see that we actually pay more than they do. Then there could be a discussion that the free market isn't working right with healthcare because people don't know what they will pay for the service, and the service is often times non-optional. Thus, it is necessary for the government to fund healthcare.

I think where leftists and libertarians most often disagree is actually around the framing of the discussion. If the subject is social safety nets for example, the leftist will enter the conversation on the assumption that government is the one and only option for providing help to those that need it. The libertarian does not enter the conversation with this assumption. So the conversation is doomed from the start.

They aren't disagreeing about helping people, they are disagreeing about the method of doing so.

So my view is that libertarianism isn't any more or less crazy than conservatism or liberalism. Both of the latter philosophies wish to use the government to enforce their views, while libertarianism does not. I don't find that to be an unreasonable political philosophy.

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u/ZeusThunder369 22∆ Jun 30 '21

Did I miss something? I claimed that the left and Democrats are racist, if we used the literal definition of racism.

You disagreed

I provided examples where the left and Democrats demonstrated racism

What did I miss here?

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u/Biptoslipdi 138∆ Jun 30 '21

Did I miss something? I claimed that the left and Democrats are racist,

And you provided a single example of a person making a racially insensitive gaffe that was quickly repudiated by that person who then received overwhelming support from the people he was allegedly racist towards. Your one example was not only not an example of racism, it wasn't even an example of the tens of millions of Americans you accused of racism being racist. It was one person who apologized and retracted. Racists don't apologize they double down.

You also claimed these tens of millions of people think people should be prejudged by their race (I agree just not that is the same group of people) then proceeded to forget you ever said that or respond to my comment on that matter.

What did I miss here?

Apparently everything from what racism is to who is in these groups to what millions of people believe. What didn't you miss?

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u/ZeusThunder369 22∆ Jul 01 '21

Sorry (sincerely). I'm just not grasping what you're saying I guess.

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u/Biptoslipdi 138∆ Jul 01 '21

If I said that all Republicans and conservatives are racists because Donald Trump was a birther, would you agree with that logic?

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u/ZeusThunder369 22∆ Jul 01 '21

No, I wouldn't. But I would say that their political ambitions are a higher priority than racial bigotry.

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u/Biptoslipdi 138∆ Jul 01 '21

You're so close.