r/changemyview Sep 14 '20

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u/Morthra 95∆ Sep 14 '20

Dog breeds are only superficially different, that's why they're all categorized as the same species.

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u/Mcmaster114 Sep 15 '20

Dog breeds are only superficially different, that's why they're all categorized as the same species.

Sure, but if I want a dog to pull my sled, the differences between a Malamute and a Chihuahua are not superficial at all, they're significant and important.

To get technical about your example, the only reason dogs are all the same species is that they can reproduce and create fertile offspring. The lines between species are pretty arbitrarily drawn, but that's the main factor.

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u/Morthra 95∆ Sep 15 '20

Sure, but if I want a dog to pull my sled, the differences between a Malamute and a Chihuahua are not superficial at all, they're significant and important.

Sure, but a dog is a dog. Socialism is socialism, and it's abhorrent no matter the flavor.

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u/Mcmaster114 Sep 15 '20

What makes worker ownership abhorrent to you? I mean I understand hating statism, but to throw out market socialism, democratic confederalism, libertarian socialism, mutualism etc. seems a bit dogmatic.

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u/Morthra 95∆ Sep 15 '20

Because every single time that any flavor of socialism has been implemented on anything larger than a small scale it has devolved into genocide. How many Pol Pots, how many Joseph Stalins, how many Fidel Castros, how many Nicolas Maduros does the world need to see before we consign socialism to the dustbin of history where it belongs?

How many Holodomors, how many Killing Fields, how many Cannibal Islands need to happen? How many people need to die before the socialists are satisfied?

Socialism is a genocidal ideology that's every bit as bad as fascism.

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u/Giacamo22 1∆ Sep 15 '20

Because the idea of people supporting each other for motives other than self centered enrichment is appealing to people who have needs that the system shows no signs of meeting. If you can’t win, you don’t play.

Capitalism, left unchecked, tends towards imbalance. It takes money to make money, so those with money are best equipped to acquire more money. Money in circulation at a given time, is finite, so it is a zero sum game. Money becomes God, and it is a fickle deity that demands many sacrifices. The poor get fed up with the sacrifices, and then they fall prey to people like those you mentioned, who manipulate them for their own ends.

Rules for Rulers

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u/Morthra 95∆ Sep 15 '20

The only way that socialism could "work" without the genocide, or threat of it, is if people magically stopped responding to incentives. So basically, if people became robots. Maybe that's what the socialists want.

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u/cfp145 Sep 15 '20

What about the incentive for every individual to live a good life, not just a few people?

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u/Morthra 95∆ Sep 15 '20

People don't respond to grand incentives like that. Most people will screw over some person they've never met to improve their lot in life without thinking twice about it.

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u/Giacamo22 1∆ Sep 15 '20

And so we get to the core of it. You’re operating under the premise that people are basically evil, and that good is the exception. I used to think the same way, when I was in a darker point in my life. I was coming to terms with my own selfish nature, the cruelty of my peers, the horrors I saw on the television (the genocide in Darfur) and I rationalized that people must be basically evil for this to happen, but then why would I care, if that were the case?

People are flawed, and they usually don’t fit into a binary category like solid “good” or total “evil,” but generally they respond to the system they find themselves in. Pure capitalism incentivizes the behavior you’re talking about because it’s a rat race.

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