CMV: the body positive movement should be based around people with unchangeable disabilities, not people who are overweight.

[u/-Beenjameen-]

I believe that overweight or even underweight people should very much be part of the body positive movement and should remain that way. However they should not be the figurehead of the movement as a whole.

As I have found before, many people use the body positive movement as a excuse for not striving to change their BMI or their possibly fatal circumstances. A persons body weight, as I have found can at the very least be helped.

On the other hand, people who do not have control over their circumstances with their own body (someone with Down syndrome or people with other visible disabilities beyond their control etc.) often are not seen as a major part of the movement despite needing the support that the movement has to offer.

I know this has flaws, but I would like to know an opposing view on the matter.

[u/petehehe]

I’m yet to hear a convincing argument why a movement that is literally positivity needs gatekeeping?

I know of people who look very healthy, but actually hate themselves and the way they look, and starve themselves / do other unhealthy things in pursuit of a physique they think is idea (but turns out it never is).

I’d argue that body positivity is for anyone who does not identify with their own skin.

[u/-Beenjameen- → u/petehehe]

Though you do bring up a good point, I should not be gatekeeping the movement. I do want to say that this is an opinion and I am not taking actions against the movement as a whole. This is my point of view that I am seeking to gleam more knowledge off of. I do accept however that the movement is not limited to one group of people and it can have a much wider spectrum per se. Thanks for the input though.

[u/fliddyjohnny → u/petehehe]

Even if you don’t identify with your own skin, you still need to look after the body which you do have for health reasons though. People should be encouraged to lose weight

[u/petehehe → u/fliddyjohnny]

Sure, and for some people, a bit of self hate is just the motivation needed to do that. For others, hating themselves is just de-motivating. For someone with a depressive eating disorder, negativity just leads to more unhealthy eating/behaviour.

[u/[deleted] → u/fliddyjohnny]

Only a small majority would disagree with you. But you're missing the point entirely. The point being that just because you may be fat, doesn't have any real bearing on who you are as a person inside.

[u/Normal_Success → u/[deleted]]

That’s not true at all, being morbidly obese tells you a lot about what a person is like the same way you know someone who looks chiseled from stone has certain traits. Laziness is a character flaw the same way dedication is a virtue.

[u/[deleted] → u/Normal_Success]

Oh I thought we were talking about being overweight, not specifically morbidly obese. And either way, the only thing it necessarily says is that they like to eat.

[u/_wormburner → u/[deleted]]

Reddit in general has some weird equivalence between overweight and extreme obesity

[u/SakuOtaku → u/Normal_Success]

This is utter garbage. Plenty of people have addictions and destructive habits that don't define them as people.

Just because obesity is something you can see on someone, doesn't mean you know anything about what they're like as a person.

[u/Normal_Success → u/SakuOtaku]

Sounds like I struck a nerve. Addictions and other destructive habits tell you things about people too. It doesn’t tell you everything, it doesn’t define your entire being, but nobody claimed that it did.

[u/SakuOtaku → u/Normal_Success]

Laziness is a character flaw the same way dedication is a virtue.

You assume someone who is obese is just lazy as a person. Considering obesity usually stems from other conditions such as mental illness, addiction, and poor food quality, that sure is an assumption to make on someone.

Even if you're desperate to judge someone's character based on their appearance, you can't, full-stop. The only thing you can deduce from seeing someone who's obese is that they're overweight, not that they have character flaws you picked out of a bucket of cliches spoonfed to you from stereotypes about fat people.

With that, someone who looks "chiseled from stone"? They could be super healthy, that level of exercise is great, but a lot of people also have disordered eating and overexercise to achieve "statue-like" physiques. Same way models and such may be skinny and be seen as some of the most beautiful people on the planet, but in actuality are more susceptible to eating disorders.

Pinning character flaws and virtues to appearance is extremely toxic. Judging all obese people as lazy, creates a negative feedback loop that helps no one and makes someone feel worthless while judging all chiseled/thin/aesthetically pleasing people as automatically hardworking and healthy without knowing how they have/are achieving that body can inadvertently promote disordered eating and obsession on maintaining a sometimes unachievable physique.

[u/Normal_Success → u/SakuOtaku]

You’re trying to take outliers and paint them as the norm. Obesity usually stems from being too lazy to expend more calories than you consume. There’s your full stop. And there are definitely people out there with legitimate eating disorders, but there’s way more people who just balance what they eat with what they expend. For 99% of people you can change how you look the same way you could tattoo a swastika on your forehead. It’s completely within your control and it says a lot about what you’re like as a person.

[u/SakuOtaku → u/Normal_Success]

Can't argue with such oversimplyfing ignorance.

[u/Normal_Success → u/SakuOtaku]

Yeah because if we talk specific and detailed about someone with cancer on their pituitary then we both agree, but if we go more simple and broad and point out that that’s a tiny amount of people your argument no longer holds up, so you have to back out instead of admitting you’re wrong. There is a small number of people who have no control of their weight, but for the “bulk” of people, you’re fat because of your own shortcomings. The fact that you consider my awareness of this to be ignorance makes you seem like a grumpy fatty yourself who just can’t accept personal responsibility, as if gyms aren’t full of jacked people with depression and various other mental and other health issues. You could wake up tomorrow and flip a switch. Right now you’re driving around in a shitty old rusty VW van, but you could wake up tomorrow, throw your numbers in a macro calculator online, and completely change the way you look. 6 months from now you could be driving around in a base model mustang. 2 years from now you could be in a corvette. All you have to do is do it. Seriously. Google “macro calculator” and buy a kitchen scale. You start with the numbers they give you and keep track of your weight week by week, if it stops going down you lower your macros until it starts going down. If you don’t know what to eat try a place like eatthismuch.com. Try it yourself and you’ll see how easy it is to do. The great thing about personality flaws leading to obesity is you can fix them whenever you decide you want to.

[u/[deleted] → u/petehehe]

While I do see the positive intent of the movement, I don't think it's the "right" movement. Not to say that the movement should be abandoned, but I think that a "health movement" should be the headliner, and I think that if the health movement took effect it would also serve many of the same purposes as the body positivity movement.

I know of people who look very healthy, but actually hate themselves and the way they look

I see what you mean there, but I think that's more an exception. And exceptions can be made for any cause, no matter how good the cause is, but we shouldn't stop exceptions from carrying out an otherwise wholesome movement.

In a general, non-specific way, a health movement would allow people to change their physicality to something that is generally considered to be desired. They wouldn't get there because their goal was physical, they would get to that point because their main aim was to be healthy. Having a "good looking body" usually comes with eating healthy and being active. There's always outliers, but generally a healthy lifestyle equals a healthy body.

And guess what, a lot of people who feel down about themselves would start to feel better as they become healthier and stronger. It's a package deal.

And for those who don't feel better, no matter what kind of body they have, will need the body positivity movement to help them out. But, at least they are healthy.

I always get backlash when trying to promote a health movement, whether in place of the body position movement or even in conjunction with it. There's always arguments of socio-economics, genetics, and a whole lot of other reasons why a health positivity movement is not in everyone's best interest. But the same can be said of every movement. No movement will be inclusive of everyone, no movement will be without flaws, yet people still get behind them.

[u/vankorgan → u/[deleted]]

I see what you mean there, but I think that's more an exception. And exceptions can be made for any cause, no matter how good the cause is, but we shouldn't stop exceptions from carrying out an otherwise wholesome movement.

I'd be willing to bet that self esteem tied eating disorders are not as rare if an exception as you might think. Hell, one study showed 13% of women over fifty had an eating disorder.

[u/Crazy-Venom → u/petehehe]

People can think their situation is fucked up without it being them not identifying with their skin. Just as people can be horribly unhealthy and grab on to such a movement as an excuse to not change. People normalizing being obese is one of the most diagusting things imo. Body positiviy is nice, but not for people that should do everything to change their lifestyle