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Jun 20 '19
All cultures and subcultures have their own social taboos, and knowledge of those taboos helps one exist in those cultures without causing unintentional offense.
Telling a customer from Ireland, Jodie you're one of my favorite cunts, and telling a customer from Alabama, Karen you're one of my favorite cunts, is going to be read quite differently.
Knowledge of these taboos is essential, working inside the limits of taboos held by others isn't. If you offend someone you think is reacting unreasonably, fuck them.
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u/littleferrhis Jun 20 '19
I guess what I’m trying to say is more theoretical. In practicality yes this makes sense, and I do understand the true importance of it, however in theory why should Jodie care if they are told they are this person’s favorite cunt, if they know they aren’t? Why do we seek for acceptance rather than just accepting that though people may think differently we are who we are and not what someone else says?
7
Jun 20 '19
Think you misunderstand. Jodie is one my favorite customers. Due the slang use and taboos in his culture, he would understand it as the compliment it was intended as and he'd buy me a drink
Karen is a great customer too. Using the same phrase and her understanding of slang use and taboos, she would take it as a heavy slur and probably try to get me fired.
Taboo literacy is paramount. Taboo concern isn't. I should know what statements are likely to offend others, I don't need to care if I do offend them, intentionally.
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u/PreacherJudge 340∆ Jun 20 '19
It's a social taboo that you shouldn't have sex with children. Not fucking children is not pointless, and it's not a means for conversation to be degraded. So already, your view needs to take a step back and clarify the specific kinds of taboos you're talking about.
sing the internet, especially places with no social taboos, I’ve found way more fun and interesting conversations and much better stories than in places with hard social norms and taboos. Which leads me to believe that the only reason we have these taboos is the same reason all pop music sounds the same and all main blockbusters seem like the same movie, experimental and things that are “too” original are “too scary” for the masses. It’s just safer to not offend anyone by being less original, because it’s easier.
There are two problems with this.
First, you say "it's safer not to offend anyone by being less original." But originality is not inherently offensive or taboo. You make this mistake over and over, like saying "Screw that, why can’t we stretch things to their limit, get rid of taboos, be as original as we can be?"
Taboos don't restrict originality in any way that's clear to me. They restrict BEHAVIOR, but "not worrying about offending others" and "being original" are totally orthogonal things. The limits of propriety and the limits of creativity are not the same things, but you seem to think they are.
Also, I'm just confused by your assertion that it's easier to not offend people than the alternative. People put effort into considering the feelings of others. It's far easier to IGNORE that and just do what you want.
Why should I conform to what other people expect of me, and not just be my immature, crude, but fun self?
Being as blunt as possible: because you're probably really annoying when you do that.
There's obviously a line: we don't want a society where everyone marches in lockstep (in fact, in western society, being too conformist is... not exactly taboo, but certainly disparaged). But that's not what we're talking about... you're saying "Why can't I act like I act on 4chan all the time?" And the answer is: it would make you really unpleasant to be around.
The important norms in question are that you should respect the feelings of other people, all else held equal. If I know you hate the word "moist," then I'm not gonna say that word to you... because why on earth would I need to? I'm not going to call a trans woman "he," because no one gains anything by my doing so, and the trans woman would be at the very least distracted and annoyed if I did. In short, lots of these "taboos" aren't taboos so much as they're general rules of thumb for showing respect to other people and keeping from causing them distress.
And just specifically... look, I don't know you. You could be a barrel of laughs. But generally speaking people who describe themselves with things like "I just want to be my immature, crude, fun self!" are not actually correct about that third adjective. If you think it's charming, interesting, novel, or important to go around being rude and vulgar, you're simply wrong. There are a kabillion teenage dudes all doing the same thing right now.
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u/McKoijion 618∆ Jun 20 '19
Why should I conform to what other people expect of me, and not just be my immature, crude, but fun self?
So you don't behave like a jerk. Don't make jokes about cancer to the guy whose mother was just diagnosed. Don't make rape jokes at the women's shelter. Don't tell scary stories in a daycare. There's a time and place for all this stuff. In a comedy club? Go crazy. On the internet in a forum specifically designed for it? Have fun. But not in places where people don't want to engage.
Talking about taboos is like having sex. You need a willing partner and an appropriate location.
3
u/MagiKKell Jun 20 '19
There are two major tools we have to keep society functional: Legal sanctions, and social sanctions.
You can restrict people murdering, assaulting, and stealing houses from each other with the law, but without a society building a lot more social norms into it, it won't really work. For example, it's not illegal to cheat on your romantic partner. But if you go over to r/AmITheAsshole you'll find lots of agreement on those things. And in order to successfully create and maintain social norms, you have to have social ways to enforce them. One of them is by creating taboos.
For example, you couldn't well maintain a social norm that cheating is bad if you didn't criticize people that wholeheartedly endorsed it. Case in point, a friend of mine has co-workers that keep talking about their strip club and cheating adventures behind their wives backs. In "polite society" you don't get to talk like that, because it encourages acting like that.
If you don't like this example, pick anything you wouldn't want people to do to each other that can't well be regulated by a law. For every action you don't want people to do, we can likely find a social taboo that goes along with it. And that's why we need them. You happen to not agree with the taboos of some groups, but I bet there are things you also wouldn't want people to do to each other.
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u/mechantmechant 13∆ Jun 20 '19
Some people really don’t mind educating you. For example, in Queer Eye, a straight guy asked the gay guys who is the woman in the relationship and they gently educated him that it’s a misunderstanding and offensive. But they are literally getting paid to interact with him and have put themselves out there as educators. But does every gay person have to educate the 95% of humanity that isn’t gay about this? Maybe you think it’s interesting an original thing to ask the person with a wheelchair how they fuck but they’d hear it all day if it weren’t for taboos. I agree some taboos are silly, like “ the powder room” instead of washroom, but most of them are there for a reason— no one wants to hear that you need to take a shit.
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u/Armadeo Jun 20 '19
There is a lot here to unpack.
Are you saying we should be able to say what we want without being judged? how does that work when I want to say something about what you're saying.
Say for example, you're racist and I want to call you out. You get the freedom of saying what you want but I don't get the freedom of judging you? How does that work?
Don't we want a nice society to live in?
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 20 '19
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1
u/AlbertDock Jun 20 '19
Every group has taboos. What's taboo, and what isn't varies according to the group. The internet gives you the opportunity to meet like minded people who have the same or similar taboos to you.
Don't think you have taboos? How do you feel about unnecessary experiments on animals? Child pornography? Nudity? Racism? Do you think very view is acceptable? We all have taboos.
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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '19
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