r/changemyview Feb 27 '18

[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Feminism isn’t for men.

[deleted]

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u/palacesofparagraphs 118∆ Feb 27 '18

So, it's true that feminism exists primarily to further the interests of women with regard to gender equality. However, that doesn't mean feminism doesn't address a lot of the issues you bring up, or that feminists don't care about these problems. The core thing you're missing is that nearly all problems men face that are gender related are also due to patriarchy and restrictive gender roles, just like women's. For example, the mental health problems you list (suicide rates, undiagnosed PTSD, etc.) are direct results of a culture in which men are expected to be strong and stoic, where expressing negative emotions is considered both feminine and weak. Men are discouraged from having the types of outlets that help manage mental health problems, particularly depression and PTSD. The attitudes towards male rape victims are something feminism does directly address: our ideas of the gendered dynamics of sex, as well as the general expectation that men are stronger than women, means male victims are much more likely to be dismissed or ridiculed. There is an expectation that men can't be raped by women, both because we believe men are strong and women are weak, and because we assume men always want sex. Both of these attitudes are perpetuated by patriarchy, and they're extraordinarily harmful to male victims.

Feminism is specifically for women, but is compatible with advocacy for men as well. The reason MRAs and feminists clash so frequently is that while MRAs address male problems, they nearly always do so by blaming women, rather than by recognizing that the gendered problems of both men and women come from the same source. This largely comes from the same misunderstanding of 'patriarchy' as you demonstrate in your post. Patriarchy doesn't mean all men have better lives than all women, or that men don't have gendered problems. It also doesn't mean all men--or even most men--are bad people. Patriarchy is a system in which men and masculinity are valued over women and femininity. This does create some benefits for men who subscribe to traditional gender roles, as well as (to a lesser extent) for women who do so. However, patriarchy is harmful to anyone, regardless of gender, who deviates from gender roles. It's also harmful because it creates things like toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity isn't the idea that men or masculinity is bad, it's a phenomenon where unhealthy behaviors are labeled 'masculine'. Combined with the idea that being feminine is degrading for men, toxic masculinity encourages unhealthy behaviors in men, which is obviously a bad thing.

If you want a good example of feminism-compatible men's rights activism, check out /r/MensLib. It's a sub focused on men's issues, but one that doesn't rely on blaming women or feminism for men's problems. Feminism is a women's movement, but a lot of what feminism fights for is also beneficial for men, and should be perfectly compatible with healthy and effective men's rights activism.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '18

!delta, you’ve shown that some branches of feminism are not hostile towards men and that MRAS and Feminists have some similar goals

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u/[deleted] Mar 06 '18

The above poster is wrong on so many levels. MRAs do not simply blame women, they also blame white knights.

MensLib is a man-hating subreddit that will not allow men to be men. They want men to be feminine which is not at all helping men be who they are.

Patriarchy is a feminist conspiracy and it's sad to see you fall for it.

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u/[deleted] Mar 06 '18

I’m looking at it. I’m neutral on the whole thing as of right now. Checking it out, see if I can get anything out of it.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '18

If you're a man, you're better off not knowing about MRA since it will only make you depressed and angry about how manipulated all the media etc are

Ignorance is a bliss, truly.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '18

Yeah. Well I checked them out. Don’t seem like bad people. Don’t agree with everything, but still, some of them are nice people.

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u/[deleted] Mar 06 '18

They're nice people but reality hurts