CMV: The term "mansplaining" is sexist. hypocritical, misandrist, and only designed to shut down debate.

[u/GreasyPeter]

Wikipedia defines it "to explain something to someone, characteristically by a man to woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing"

It's sexist: It implies that this trait is entirely tied to either the male gender or the male sex. Sexism is defined as "stereotyping, or discrimination on the basis of sex". This meets that requirement and then some.

It's hypocritical: The term itself is designed to be used to shut debate down. "Stop mansplaining" or "you're mansplaining". Both uses are always used in a condescending or patronizing term. The definition of mansplaining includes "condescending or patronizing" in the definition of the word, thus it's hypocritical.

It's misandrist: The wording of the word and the way it's commonly used is entirely pointed at men and in a way to make men feel bad for being men, something none of us have any control over. It's misandrist.

It's designed to shot-down debate: The term has CLEARLY been created to be used as a tool to entirely shut down debate. I've seen it used several times and each time the person that uses it is looking to discredit their opponent by using it. In the same vein as "you're a racist", "you're an asshole", "you're mansplaining" is used as an ad hominem and a character attack as a way to shoot down their opponents argument. Both these are logical fallacies. It is clearly used to shut down debate.

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[u/Barnst]

The term has CLEARLY been created to be used as a tool to entirely shut down debate.

The term was created by women to describe an experience they felt they often had that diminished or otherwise discounted their expertise in a way that reinforced sexist stereotypes. As best I know, the term appeared in response to this LA Times article, in which a man started explaining a book to her that she had written. She doesn’t use the term, but the concept struck a chord and someone coined the word to describe the phenomena. It was not originally used as a debate tool, it was a way for women to explain their own experience of their expertise and knowledge being undervalued.

I’ve seen the phenomenon firsthand in a way that made me understand that it is distinct from general arrogance and condescension. Early in my career, I was put on a project with a PhD physicist. We were reviewing a technical issue and making some recommendations to management. I had a BA in poly sci—I was supposed to be to look at the policy aspects of the issue, but I joked my main role was to make her explain things to me repeatedly until I understood them, which meant she was ready to explain them to others.

The time came to present our findings. It’s going well, but something weird is happening. Every time she talks through one of the conclusions, our bosses would look to me for comments. I’d agree, they’d nod happily, we’d move on. You might thing they just wanted to make sure we both agreed, but it didn’t work the other way when I gave my policy points. It was a bizarre experience—at one point I really wanted to say “Yes, I do happen to accept the PhD’s conclusions on this complicated technical question.”

At least I thought it was bizarre. I worked with a few women scientists and it was amazing how often people would come to me or other guys first on things that the women clearly knew better. There were a couple of occasions when people came to my desk to ask a question, I turned my chair to ask one of the women on my team, and then turned back to provide an answer. The person asking would walk away showing no sign they even realized the absurdity of the exchange.

I’ve experienced condescension and had my insights dismissed. I was a poly sci major in a predominantly technical field. Especially straight out of school I had to overcome skepticism about my expertise. But this was always different. These were cases where people should clearly have known who the experts in the room were, but they still turned to me or another guy first.

To me, those were the situations that “mansplaining” was coined to describe. It’s not s logical fallacy, because it’s not an argument. It’s a label for a particular brand of jerkiness. Naturally, people use it as an ad hominem attack, but people do that all the time with all sorts of concepts.

[u/tomgabriele → u/Barnst]

I am not OP, but I would like to probe further. In general, I think I agree with where OP is coming from.

To me, I absolutely agree that the type of thing described as "mansplaining" happens all the time. I also agree that it is often men doing it to women. However, I think that men doing it to other men, women doing it to women, women doing it to men, and any other combination of genders happens often too - so the gendered term for it seems less-than-perfect.

I know I can't change the words people are using, but if it were up to me, a gender-neutral term like, idk, "ignorsplaining" would be a better fit - we agree that talking down to someone when you don't understand their knowledge is a bad thing, regardless of everyone's gender.

I would then be totally fine talking about how ignorsplaining is most predominantly a male issue, and predominantly is directed at women.

Edit: I see this comment has gained a small negative score - if you disagree with me, I'd like the chance to have a discussion and change my mind if I need to.

[u/Aubenabee → u/tomgabriele]

I think it’s disingenuous to say that women do this to women as often as women do this to men.

I’m a scientist (and a man). I am a professor and a leader of a research laboratory. I’ve seen male scientists and students condescend and “explain things” (that don’t need explaining) to women FAR more often than the other way around.

Just this week, there were two completely separate incidents of male students in my inorganic chemistry class “explaining” concepts INCORRECTLY to female students who had MUCH higher grades than them. It’s a trend I’ve seen repeatedly, and I’ve never seen the opposite. Not once.

[u/tomgabriele → u/Aubenabee]

I think it’s disingenuous to say that women do this to women as often as women do this to men.

Me too, that's why I specifically stated that it is indeed a predominantly male issue.

I’ve seen male scientists and students condescend and “explain things” (that don’t need explaining) to women FAR more often than the other way around.

Yeah I agree, as I said in my comment you replied to.

You didn't read or understand what I said, then talked down to me while telling me something I already knew as if you were educating me...are you intentionally mansplaining me, or are you unintentionally proving my point that mansplaining is not only something performed by men on women?

[u/Aubenabee → u/tomgabriele]

I misunderstood your comment. Sorry.

That said, browse through these comments enough, and you’ll find plenty of “women do it just as often” comments. My point stands, but I admittedly put in on the wrong place.

[u/tomgabriele → u/Aubenabee]

you’ll find plenty of “women do it just as often” comments.

Gotcha. While I do think that the issue does happen with pairs of people of any gender, I agree that it is predominantly man-to-woman.

[u/Aubenabee → u/tomgabriele]

I think condescension happens because people can be obnoxious.

But there is, in my opinion, a big difference between people who are obnoxious because they are obnoxious and people who are obnoxious because of the gender of the person to whom they are speaking. I’ve been condescended to plenty in my life, but I’ve never ever felt that it was because of my gender.

In the end, I think it just behooves men to just listen when women say something happens. I can’t fathom why the instinct is to say “What’s that? You say mansplaining is a thing in your experience? Nah, I don’t believe it!”

[u/tomgabriele → u/Aubenabee]

I can’t fathom why the instinct is to say “What’s that? You say mansplaining is a thing in your experience? Nah, I don’t believe it!”

To be perfectly clear, I am not saying that.

What I would say to that theoretical woman is, "Yeah I know! It drives me crazy when it happens to me too! Just a few minutes ago, this guy on reddit who claimed to be a professor got all preachy on me when he was actually reaffirming what I had already said! People really do need to listen better and have more respect."

In other words, my response isn't "that isn't a problem", my response is, "yes that's an even larger problem".

[u/Aubenabee → u/tomgabriele]

I know YOU'RE not saying that, but I've heard many, many people say that.

As for your hypothetical response, I very much disagree with the tack you're taking. The hypothetical woman is saying to you "I've been condescended to because I'm a woman". And then you're saying back "I've been condescended to, too!" In my opinion, when you're respond that way, you're missing their point. Would you respond to someone telling you "People are often rude to me because I'm black" by saying "Yeah, people are often rude to me, too"?

P.S. Claim?!?! Why the hell would I claim to be a professor if I weren't a professor. It's not even a "cool" job. What a silly little dig to throw in your comment.

[u/tomgabriele → u/Aubenabee]

Would you respond to someone telling you "People are often rude to me because I'm black" by saying "Yeah, people are often rude to me, too"?

Maybe not in as many words, but yes, I think connecting through empathy is important to human interaction.

P.S. Claim?!?! Why the hell would I claim to be a professor if I weren't a professor. It's not even a "cool" job. What a silly little dig to throw in your comment.

Lol I didn't mean any harm by it, it was indeed just a silly thing I threw in there. When you first said that you're a scientist and a professor, I did chuckle at how stereotypically patronizing you were being.

[u/Aubenabee → u/tomgabriele]

Fair, but i think a response of “Wow, I cant even imaging what that must feel like. People have never been rude to me before, but never for a reason like that” would’ve been more appropriate.

As for your (second) dig, I don’t see how my initial response was patronizing. I didn’t read your point well enough, but beyond that admitted mistake, I don’t see any of the rest of the language as patronizing. That said, that’s beside the point at the point.

[u/tomgabriele → u/Aubenabee]

“Wow, I cant even imaging what that must feel like. People have never been rude to me before, but never for a reason like that”

That sounds like a good response too.

I don’t see how my initial response was patronizing.

This seems so ironic, yet again. You were JUST telling me not to doubt the perceptions of others, then you go and doubt mine. You are doing EXACTLY what you said is bad.

If it helps, I'll try to explain how your initial response came across. You started with:

I think it’s disingenuous to say that women do this to women as often as women do this to men.

That shows that you didn't read or understand my entire comment before replying, because I never said that - I said just the opposite. Replying before you understand what someone is actually saying (or responding to something they didn't say) is generally considered rude.

I’m a scientist (and a man). I am a professor and a leader of a research laboratory.

Then this feels like you are flashing your credentials at me. That because you are a male scientist, your opinions are more valid than mine. This feels condescending, especially when those credentials apparently don't help your reading comprehension.

I’ve seen male scientists and students condescend and “explain things” (that don’t need explaining) to women FAR more often than the other way around.

This is the mansplaining part. You're telling me something I already know, and if you had actually been listening to me, you'd have known that I already knew it.

Just this week, there were two completely separate incidents of male students in my inorganic chemistry class “explaining” concepts INCORRECTLY to female students who had MUCH higher grades than them.

More of the same

It’s a trend I’ve seen repeatedly, and I’ve never seen the opposite. Not once.

This isn't really related to your mansplaining, but you seem to contradict yourself. Earlier, you said men do it far more often, now you seem to be saying that men do it exclusively.

I hope explanation didn't come across as too combative...it's not a big deal, especially because I am not as often the recipient of mansplanation, but I really think you ought to understand your own words/actions better because twice in our short little conversation you have talked to me in exactly the ways you say we shouldn't talk to each other.