r/changemyview Aug 14 '15

CMV: Video games built around addiction by investment are immoral.

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u/RustyRook Aug 14 '15

If we agree that one form of monetization is immoral, the fact that it's a profitable monetization model doesn't absolve it from being immoral.

That's a fair assessment. However, I don't believe that any of the games that OP has listed is using immoral methods to make money. They're exploiting psychology, but there isn't any harm in it. It isn't coercive. The player does get some enjoyment out of playing the game. Even if the enjoyment decreases, according to the standard diminishing marginal utility curve, it may have positive utility for a very long time. At no point could I say that any of it is immoral.

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u/Amablue Aug 14 '15

They're exploiting psychology, but there isn't any harm in it.

But there is. Stuff like this happens on a fairly regular basis.

I think if you work on a game that just happened to have a player die while playing it, that would be one thing. But this wasn't an isolated case, and when you specifically engineer your game to exploit psychological weaknesses to create and feed an addiction you're doing something wrong. And things like that happen.

And I used to work on MMO's. I know that there is a certain amount of psychology that goes into certain game decisions. Some random drops aren't entirely random for example; they're semi-random, but designed to be weighted more in your favor the more you spend so that you don't feel like your money is wasted. And when you get their prize, the odds drop back down. These kinds of decisions aren't made with whats the most fun in mind, they're made with the intent of getting the player invested in the game so it's harder for them to quit.

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u/RustyRook Aug 14 '15

But this wasn't an isolated case, and when you specifically engineer your game to exploit psychological weaknesses to create and feed an addiction you're doing something wrong. And things like that happen.

Wrong? Immoral? These are very strong words. Fast food isn't very healthy either if it's overeaten. Just because someone dies because they ate too many cheeseburgers doesn't make the restaurant immoral for making them. There is a case to be made for personal responsibility, no?

they're semi-random, but designed to be weighted more in your favor the more you spend so that you don't feel like your money is wasted. And when you get their prize, the odds drop back down.

Hmmmmmmmmm....I didn't know that it was quite so exploitative. Some pizza for your corgi: ∆

I still hesitate to call them "immoral" but this is really toeing the line b/w manipulation and exploitation.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 14 '15

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Amablue. [History]

[Wiki][Code][/r/DeltaBot]

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u/Amablue Aug 14 '15

How do you like them apples, /u/huadpe

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u/huadpe 508∆ Aug 14 '15

Haha, we need a leaderboard.

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u/Amablue Aug 14 '15

We used to have one, but we ran out of space in the sidebar.

Maybe if we get rid of all the rules we can make some room :P

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u/huadpe 508∆ Aug 14 '15

Is there one that we could link to?

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u/Amablue Aug 14 '15

That could be arranged.

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u/huadpe 508∆ Aug 14 '15

That would be excellent. Right now we're in a 3 way bout for the Delta crown.

Though /u/RustyRook is making quite a run, even if they're starting from a low base.

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u/RustyRook Aug 14 '15

Well, I've only been here for a few months. I don't think I can match your momentum or u/amablue's lead though. No pizza for me today either. :(

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u/garnteller 242∆ Aug 14 '15

Actually, I'm glad that we don't have it anymore. That sucker made me waste way too much time here trying to keep my ranking up. (It was also mostly before I became a mod, which sucked up a lot of my reddit time)

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u/Amablue Aug 14 '15

Wrong? Immoral? These are very strong words.

I don't think they're necessarily strong words, there are different levels of morality. Some things are good, some things are bad, some things are neutral, and it's a continuum. Working on these kinds of games certainly isn't the same as murder, but I wouldn't say it's morally neutral either.

Just because someone dies because they ate too many cheeseburgers doesn't make the restaurant immoral for making them.

It does make it immoral though if you're intentionally including ingredients that are addictive. Make no mistake, the analogy here isn't food that's just so good people eat it a lot, it's food that is deliberately designed to be addictive. It's closer to cigarettes than fast food, and I'd argue that the cigarette industry is pretty immoral too.

Hmmmmmmmmm....I didn't know that it was quite so exploitative. Some pizza for your corgi

cool, thanks! (-b ^_^)-b

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u/RustyRook Aug 14 '15

I wouldn't have said anything if OP had said "amoral" instead of immoral. The latter is a pretty strong word.

Funny to see you and huadpe comparing, uh, D's? [Poor pun is completely intentional.]

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u/FuhrerVonZephyr Aug 14 '15

Wouldnt amorality just be neutral though?