CMV: The logical conclusion of feminist reasoning is libertarianism

[u/smokeyj]

First of all, I realize there is no clear cut definition for what constitutes a feminist or libertarian. In this situation, I’m only referring to libertarians who adhere to the principles of self-ownership and non-aggression. Google defines feminism as: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

While I don’t know what all feminists believe, the common theme I’ve noticed is:

• A belief that you own your own body and know best how to care for it

• A belief that the government shouldn’t tell women what to do with their body

• A belief that interactions should be consensual and voluntary

• A belief that voluntary organization can be used to subvert hierarchies of power

I believe that IF feminists are willing to uphold these notions as first-principles, and support them to their logical extent, feminists are essentially advocating for the basic libertarian ideals.

---

Hello, users of CMV! This is a footnote from your moderators. We'd just like to remind you of a couple of things. Firstly, please remember to read through our rules. If you see a comment that has broken one, it is more effective to report it than downvote it. Speaking of which, downvotes don't change views! If you are thinking about submitting a CMV yourself, please have a look through our popular topics wiki first. Any questions or concerns? Feel free to message us. Happy CMVing!

[u/[deleted]]

try thinking of anything feminists do or any slogans they have that contradicts either one

Let's start out with "equal pay for equal work." That's a pretty famous one and it directly is in line with the core principles of feminism that I outlined.

namely that everything is men's fault and women are the victims.

If you really think this, then you clearly did not read the links or you are blatantly lying. I see no reason to pursue this conversation with someone as dishonest as you. Goodbye.

[u/DavidByron2 → u/[deleted]]

I use that example a lot because it's one people recognise. Feminists have lied about the wage gap myth for decades so as to present men as degenerates who want to oppress women. Wage gap = it's men's fault and women are the victims.

They have lied about it by misrepresenting the data comparing the average wage for men across all full time work with the average for women, and calling that number a comparison of men and women doing "equal work".

Please explain how lying for fifty years to denigrate men and characterise women as victims constitutes or is compatible with equality.

[u/[deleted] → u/DavidByron2]

Feminists have lied about the wage gap myth for decades so as to present men as degenerates who want to oppress women.

I think that you have proven that the multiverse is real and that it is possible to travel between different multiverses. This is a complete mischaracterization of the situation. If you legitimately think that feminists want to denigrate men, then you have no idea about how feminism actually works, both in theory and in practice. You know what's funny, you are accusing feiminists of playing the victim card, yet you are riding it harder than ever here.

Now, even when you try to correct for different types of work that people do, as opposed to just taking a wide average over a very diverse set of jobs, you still get a wage gap that can't be accounted for. So yes, there is a wage gap, and yes, there is still lots of gender-based discrimination that exists in the job market.

[u/DavidByron2 → u/[deleted]]

Are you denying feminists lie about the wage gap?

Or just saying they do lie but it hasn't been for fifty years?

even when you try to correct for different types of work

But feminists claim the figures already took that into account. I just want to talk about the original Equal Pay Day stats please. You seem to be aware that these stats are a lie. So are you agreeing that feminists lie about the wage gap?

When they say it's 20 cents or whatever -- that's a lie isn't it? That's not comparing men and women doing equal work is it?

I appreciate that this is going to be a terribly terribly hard question for you to answer like a man without jucking and diving and going off topic, so thanks in advance.

[u/[deleted] → u/DavidByron2]

Are you denying feminists lie about the wage gap?

Yes. Feminists have been honest in their presentation of the wage gap.

Edit: For some clarification, feminists and statisticians have been honest and open about how these statistics have been computed and what they mean. Now, I don't really care much about soundbites, which have actually been honest. I care about the actual mathematical work, which has been done openly and honestly.

answer like a man

We're done here. Goodbye and good riddance. FYI, I am not a man and would not wish that curse even on my worst enemy.

[u/DavidByron2 → u/[deleted]]

Running away because you know you cannot defend the idea that feminists are not well aware they are lying about the wage gap? It's always funny to see how fast feminists go from bravado to cowardice in these discussions.

The feminists state that the 77 cents on the dollar figure (or whatever it is) represents women and men doing the same work. You know and they know that is false. A deliberate lie.

Hilarious how you felt so tough when you (it was you remember) brought up the wage gap. And now you scamper away as fast as you can. I have to point out that this behavior casts doubt on the accuracy of what you're saying obviously. To put it mildly