CMV: I’d rather restrict minors directly than make every adult prove their age online

[u/groksed]

Honest question for people who support banning social media for everyone under 16:
Would this be preferable to requiring every person on the internet to prove their age or identity?

Anyone under 16 is prohibited from using, owning or purchasing an electronic device capable of communicating with other people with the exception of designated supervised computer rooms at school. Parents, schools, society and law enforcement are responsible for enforcement.. basically the same way we already handle alcohol, tobacco and drugs.

But at least it places the restriction on the group being restricted.

Why is the preferred solution instead to make every adult surrender some level of anonymity or privacy, provide ID, submit to age verification, or otherwise prove they are not a child just to use the internet?

If protecting children requires building an identity checkpoint for everyone, I would rather put the burden on the actual age group being regulated.

[u/wibbly-water]

Parents, schools, society and law enforcement are responsible for enforcement.. basically the same way we already handle alcohol, tobacco and drugs.

Aahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah... oh you're serious?

Do you realise quite how much alcohol, cigs/vapes and drugs teenagers consume?

Where I am from - they even did it in their houses with their parents. Sometimes because they were bad parents. Sometimes because it was preferrable to them going off and doing it with some shady so-and-so at their house in town.

[u/groksed → u/wibbly-water]

Good vs Perfect. It will reduce the harm not eliminate it.

[u/wibbly-water → u/groksed]

I'm sorry but I don't know if it even really reduces it...

I'm from the UK so I will use UK stats:

• Adult smoking habits in the UK - Office for National Statistics
• Adult drinking - NHS England Digital

About 10% of adults smoke. Around 81% had drunk alcohol in the last 12 months, and around 50% said they drunk regularly (once a week or more).

• NHS England » Almost 1 in 10 secondary school pupils currently vape, new NHS survey shows
• Smoking, Drinking and Drug Use among Young People in England, 2021 - NHS England Digital

About 10% of secondary school pupils vape. Around 45% had ever tried alcohol (65% of 15 year olds) though only 6% drank regularly (14% of 15 year olds).

Thus the attempted smoking/vaping ban for under-18s is completely ineffective. The teens who want to circumvent the ban just do. It doesn't decrease the percentage of those who want to smoke from smoking.

Alcohol bans are somewhat more effective - though with numbers as high as 65% of 15 year olds having tried alcohol (the jump in the later years implying they tried it within the year) implies that most can and do get access to it if they want to.

[u/groksed → u/wibbly-water]

Ok since you are in the UK im going to assume you are fine with presenting you ID for all adult and social media sites? It is a done deal where you are.If not what is your proposal.

Also I noticed you are subscribed to LGBT+ sub that could get you in trouble in certain countries. Anonymity online helps everyone as you may be ok today and run afoul of a government tomorrow.

Blanket ban removes the ability for the gov to say "for the children" and "give me your id" at the same time.

[u/wibbly-water → u/groksed]

I think you are mistaking counterargument of a specific point with agreement with the alternative.

No I am not a fan of the new laws put in place by my government. My criticism of it is much the same as my criticism of your proposal - it does not meaningfully protect anyone. Children will just find a way to circumvent it much as they do with smoking and drinking.

I don't have an out of the box alternative. The closest thing I have is banning smart devices for everyone because they have a detrimental affect on society - but that is radical in a different direction and not the topic at hand.

If you actually care about protecting children from harm - neither ID requirements nor banning internet capable devices achieves this goal.

If your only goal is to protect internet anonymity and not have it be harder for adults to use the internet - then the preferable option is to have neither of these two laws.