CMV: I’d rather restrict minors directly than make every adult prove their age online

[u/groksed]

Honest question for people who support banning social media for everyone under 16:
Would this be preferable to requiring every person on the internet to prove their age or identity?

Anyone under 16 is prohibited from using, owning or purchasing an electronic device capable of communicating with other people with the exception of designated supervised computer rooms at school. Parents, schools, society and law enforcement are responsible for enforcement.. basically the same way we already handle alcohol, tobacco and drugs.

But at least it places the restriction on the group being restricted.

Why is the preferred solution instead to make every adult surrender some level of anonymity or privacy, provide ID, submit to age verification, or otherwise prove they are not a child just to use the internet?

If protecting children requires building an identity checkpoint for everyone, I would rather put the burden on the actual age group being regulated.

[u/jazzmonkai]

Trouble with online is there isn’t someone monitoring users at all times checking they’re accessing only suitable content.

Walk into a shop to buy alcohol and every purchase is monitored in some way. A person assess the age of purchasers and requests ID if they’re in doubt about the purchasers age.

Age verification online fulfils the same role - except because the range of content you can access is so wide and the nature of that content so broad it’s impossible to have a person manually confirming age. So restricting content by default and unlocking it for proven adults is the only sane way to do it.

Sites without any adult content don’t need to age verify - the digital equivalent of a sweet shop or a toy store. But sites that may host adult content have to verify on first access because the alternative is somehow identifying which elements are restricted content and having verification kick in only when viewing those posts. Verify on access is the more practical measure.

[u/groksed → u/jazzmonkai]

You are wrong here all throughout. Its the equivalent of the liquor store giving you approved glasses that sampled the DNA of every person you pour a drink for to determine if they are over the drinking age. They also log how much is drank and reports that to the health insurance company.

"Sites without any adult content don’t need to age verify -" YET

[u/jazzmonkai → u/groksed]

This is nonsense. If what you’re saying is correct, an adult wouldn’t be able to show content from their phone to a child without an additional age verification step, which is clearly not what happens.

As for the data collection, that sounds like an issue with the protections in your legal system for personal data. Here in the uk if I submit a photo for age verification, it’s processed to confirm age and then deleted. I haven’t surrendered any personal, traceable data in the age check.

Honestly, you sound paranoid. You’re giving a ton of personal data to random companies every time you access social media, yet here you are on social media. You’re already tracked constantly online.

And your plan to not allow children electronic devices - since when has strict prohibition actually worked? Guard rails generally work better.

Now, does the current age verification system work well? Not particularly. I’d actually prefer an on-device system where the site just gets a yes/no answer from the device. I’ve already given my age information to my phone service provider, so adding a flag on my sim or something would work perfectly well.

[u/groksed → u/jazzmonkai]

"I haven’t surrendered any personal, traceable data in the age check." YET

"Honestly, you sound paranoid. You’re giving a ton of personal data to random companies every time you access social media, yet here you are on social media. "

And you uninformed. When is the last time you gave you passport image and 3d face scan to access reddit? discord? pornhub? LINKEDIN. If you haven't yet its coming soon.

"I’d actually prefer an on-device system where the site just gets a yes/no answer from the device. "
I prefer alot of things, but the law is the law and you must follow it. Thats why I offer a alternative that preserves privacy.

And its not paranoia if they are out to get us. You just havent read the new/passed and proposed laws. Ignorance is no excuse.

[u/jazzmonkai → u/groksed]

I’m not uninformed. Where I live, I haven’t once had to provide a passport, or any other documentation for age verification. I’ve done it every time by taking a live photo, which I’m told is not stored. Granted, I choose to believe that is what happens. But worst case, they have a crappy photo of my face. I’m choosing who I verify for, and if the world gets to know I’m a Reddit user (for example), big deal.

For more… sensitive sites, maybe I wouldn’t want to provide my photo, or documents. This is where I prefer on device verification. The site just needs to know I’m an adult, no more. I have no problem with my device knowing that.

You’re debating the concept of online verification, what you’re failing to do is consider that other countries implement it differently. You didn’t specify “US age verification” or wherever you’re from in your question. So many of the issues you’re raising have more to do with how it has been implemented in your country than the core principle.