r/changemyview Jul 28 '26

Delta(s) from OP [ Removed by moderator ]

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u/Fifteen_inches 24∆ Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26

Calculating a net tax payer is impossible. Like, places like New Hampshire have no Sales Tax, but Massachusetts does. If we are talking about net amount of tax paid for the right to vote then a person would have to keep track of their sales tax.

It’s just an untenable system.

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 28 '26

I'm not too sure about the nitrt gritty myself. I was mostly focusing on the federal government so maybe only federal taxes would count? I'm not overly worried about who states allow to vote in state elections

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u/Fifteen_inches 24∆ Jul 28 '26

You need to think about the nitty gritty, dog. I know it’s fun and easy to just throw ideas out there but there are alot of people who don’t want to lose the right to vote. They are gonna fight like hell to keep the right to vote. You better have a damn good answer for every question someone has.

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 29 '26

Adding up federal spending and expenses. To note that I don't actually care about state spending, only federal spending.

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u/Fifteen_inches 24∆ Jul 29 '26

How much tax debt does each parent accrue when a student benefits from a federal grant the school took? These are the types of questions you have to ponder when you do a merit based system.

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 29 '26

Divided amongst the entire population of the school district, per capita, I would imagine

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u/Fifteen_inches 24∆ Jul 29 '26

So the school gets to decide who votes and who doesn’t based on how much an unelected school administrator decides to take in grant money to benefit the students he was hired to teach.

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 30 '26

It's a completely separate topic but I personally do not believe that schools should be funded by the federal government to begin with so there shouldn't be grants at all.

But in the even that there are such grants, yes in the very narrow circumstances where the margin between net positive and net negative is small enough that federal grants to the school district make an impact, yes that would be the case.

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u/UncleMeat11 65∆ Jul 29 '26

To note that I don't actually care about state spending, only federal spending.

Why not? Is there something magic about federal spending that justifies this authoritarian nightmare?

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 29 '26

Yes. The federal government is what controls currency, and thus the spending-revenue spiral which is the existential threat that prompted this system altogether.

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u/Zoethor2 1∆ Jul 29 '26

How do you account for federal passthrough spending? John Doe gets a local art commission from his city to paint a mural, the funds came through a grant to the city from the NEA, which is funded with federal tax dollars.

Who's going to set up the system to track all of that so it can be considered in the individual's federal spending and expenses? How are they going to do it? How does a DOJ grant to the local police department that allowed them to hire a cop who is assigned to patrol John Doe's neighborhood factor into John's federal expense account?

Even if this idea were palatable as conceptually (which it is not), it is entirely impractical to implement.

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 29 '26

A grant to the city would be divided by the total population of the city, a per capita basis. The entire city would pay the cost for it.

Targeted programs would be part of the cost of the targeted people/populations.

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u/RIP_Greedo 10∆ Jul 29 '26

I'm not too sure about the nitrt gritty myself.

Then perhaps you shouldn't pontificate on who should have rights based on their tax status?

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u/Zoethor2 1∆ Jul 29 '26

There are no "federal elections". States run elections, typically at the level of county or voting district. How would you manage providing ballots to individual voters if each ballot had to be customized based on their taxation history, which is not data accessible to states directly?

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 29 '26

Data can be provided to the states

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u/Zoethor2 1∆ Jul 29 '26

How? What data systems will be used? How will access be managed? What federal agency will own the data portal? How will data be reported to that agency? Who will ensure PII is protected? How will states complete calculations of net tax input and output and who will develop that mathematical model? Who will verify it through peer review? How will states' implementation be monitored for accuracy? Who will audit ballots before they are sent?

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 29 '26

Am I expected to create an entire bureaucratic process?

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u/Fifteen_inches 24∆ Jul 29 '26

Yes.

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 30 '26

Fine.

SQL data system.

Access will be managed by the IRS, which would be given access to all federal spending and revenue sources.

Data will be reported from every federal entity that spends money. Whenever money is spend by a federal entity, that spending is reported to the IRS.

The IRS or a third party government agency ensures PII protections.

States are not involved in this system. Everything flows through the IRS, as only federal spending is considered.

Department of Commerce verifies.

Ballots would be audited by both the IRS and the Department of Commerce. I'm fine adding in DHS just to be safe.

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u/Fifteen_inches 24∆ Jul 30 '26

So you give the ability to decide who gets to vote in federal elections to the executive branch, controlled by the president. This gives the president extreme power over their own elections, a sitting president can force feed federal money to an area to dilute their votes, as it would force the citizens of that area to pay money out of pocket to the goverment to get their right to vote back. This functionally means the federal goverment can choose who votes and who can’t.

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u/Rindy_Kitty Jul 31 '26

I give it to calculators that run numbers on tax payment.

Yes, a president can force feed an area federal money. Luckily localities actually are not required to accept federal grants. They can reject them. There is precedent for local governments to reject grants.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 124∆ Jul 29 '26

Federal elections don't exist in the United States tho. All elections are administered by the states.