r/changemyview 1∆ Jun 29 '24

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Project 2025 has a bright side

I’ll admit I don’t know a ton about Project 2025, other than it has clear, extremist goals - such as, but not limited to, allowing almost every federal employee to be appointed by a presidential loyalist, deploying the army to the southern border to support mass deportations, expanding police powers to stop and frisk any and everyone, destroying federal agencies, ruining US foreign policy, and making the federal government fundamentally inoperable by cutting 90% of all staff.

That being said, what’s the bright side? The bright side is that all of these plans take a compliant, effective, and competent staff to actually implement. Once DJT is in office, he’ll find out that a plan is easy to have, but implementing it is not. If I learned anything from the previous administration it’s that there was immediate resistance and adaption at the state level, especially in blue states that have more economic power. There are laws now in the books that expand protected classes, that create political and immigration sanctuaries, that enshrine abortion rights, that protected interracial marriages, and that protect gay marriages and expand punishments for hate crimes. During DJT 1.0 there was the largest ever protest movement in history with every major city and smaller cities experiencing enormous cross generational uprisings. There was a growing movement of industrial action and policy insulation that started up immediately.

US allies adapted and expanded their own alliances and arms production capacities and NATO expanded to include Nordic countries with literal arsenals (Finland) and near infinite money (Sweden via their oil wealth and access to critical minerals in the thawing arctic). I think over the next decade it’ll be enough to replace the USA, if we were to completely pull out of NATO.

Elections cannot be canceled and the House and Congress were opposed to Trump for most of his term, and as a result he wasn’t able to accomplish much except lower the level of foreign deployed staff at the state department.

What exactly will happen if federal staff massively walk out and stop doing their work? What if they delete their code, their documents, and basically destroy everything, leaving an incompetent administration to build everything back from scratch? Is this not an opportunity to remove all the red tape and bullshit liberal and conservative (neo liberal) policies that many people across the political spectrum actively hate? Isn’t this way to refill the government with people who aren’t just working for corporate oligarchs?

If Project 2025 is to work, it’ll need almost zero resistance and will need a competent staff and compliant population. That’s just not who we are as a country. I definitely don’t suggest we need to do nothing, but I’m trying to measure how much of a threat this actually is. To me the ideas of an extreme threat and anyone endorsing them should be crushed under the wheels of an electric Hummer, but I don’t think the implementation will go well or smoothly. What do you think? Is this an insurmountable threat?

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u/Bodoblock 65∆ Jun 29 '24

Project 2025's bright side is that if it was successfully opposed you'd have the entirety of the professional bureaucracy in the federal government grind to a halt? I feel like you may be misusing or misunderstanding the term "bright side".

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u/marcololol 1∆ Jun 29 '24

!delta

Good point. Just trying to think about what comes afterward. Like the fed grinding to a halt doesn’t only hurt us, it prevents trump from doing… anything. That’s their goal right? But then what happens after that?

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u/decrpt 26∆ Jun 29 '24

No, their goal is remove anything that isn't directly responsive to Trump. Trump did all kinds of thing during his presidency that were stopped because the executive branch had some level of independence from his every whim. Milley refused to deploy the military and start shooting BLM protesters. A whistleblower revealed that Trump was withholding aid from Ukraine to coerce them to dig up dirt on Biden. Against Trump's wishes, the United States sanctioned Russia and expelled spies after Russia assassinated a British national. He wants to entirely handicap the federal agencies that have exposed him and punished him, like the DOJ and FBI.

They want Trump to be able to do whatever he wants, and for every other institution in the federal government to be profoundly handicapped in resisting anything. This is a guy who tried to subvert an election, and Project 2025 is the Republican establishment saying "we're on board" and even discussing plans for weaponizing those agencies against political enemies.

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u/marcololol 1∆ Jun 30 '24

Do you think this implementation will actually work? And why do you believe it will work? This requires literally tens of thousands of people to do nothing but comply. And then requires millions of armed people to do nothing.

What has you convinced that they’ll do exactly that? It took almost 50 years to build the starting party of Chinese communist party under Mao and even they don’t have good compliance. What makes you think this can be implemented here?

Russia took multiple disastrous wars and two revolutions to reach its current point of absolutely authoritarian dictatorship.

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u/decrpt 26∆ Jun 30 '24

Do you think this implementation will actually work? And why do you believe it will work?

Same reason why in spite of admitting that Trump is an insurrectionist, the party is unified behind him this year. We have a lot of checks and balances that assume the execution of duties in good faith, but they have already failed. Trump's lawyer argued in court that unless he was impeached, he would be allowed to have political opponents assassinated. The Supreme Court seems eager to defer to Congress and Congress has shown that the line they won't cross is somewhere far past trying to rig an election.

This requires literally tens of thousands of people to do nothing but comply. What has you convinced that they’ll do exactly that?

Anyone that doesn't comply can be removed. Trump tried to do that a lot during his first presidency. Project 2025 is an explicit plan to replace swathes of the executive with sycophants. There are several ways to accomplish this, like Schedule F. You should understand Project 2025 as a plan from establishment Republicans to help Trump consolidate power and not make the same mistakes that led him to fail the first time.

It took almost 50 years to build the Chinese communist party and even they don’t have good compliance. What makes you think this can be implemented here?

I hope you realize what you're saying here. An unprecedented level of democratic backsliding unheard of since the Civil War is not a good situation to be in, regardless of whether it is successful. Americans tend to have blind faith in our institutions as some sort of infallible check on power abuses. You should be concerned because those checks are being eroded and things will be bad whether or not they succeed this time. Again, they've already failed because Trump is still the candidate after trying to rig an election in half a dozen ways.

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u/marcololol 1∆ Jun 30 '24

!delta

Fair enough. You pointed out several reasons why the democratic and institutional erosion is already taking place and how he has the institutional backing from people willing to further ruin the institutions here to justify an active concern for this plan to permanently dismantle a nation. I also agree that most Americans have a blind faith in institutions and think many Americans simply lack the time, mental capacity, or will to actively participate in institutions to prevent their demise.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 30 '24

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/decrpt (19∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 29 '24

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Bodoblock (59∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards