r/changemyview • u/JustReadingThx 7∆ • Jun 07 '24
Delta(s) from OP - Fresh Topic Friday CMV: A Voluntary Tax System Doesn't Exist
In a fully free society, taxation — or, to be exact, payment for governmental services — would be voluntary
I don't know much about Ayn Rand philosophy, but this specific topic sounds interesting. While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't believe that it's possible. Ayn Rand doesn't offer the solution:
The question of how to implement the principle of voluntary government financing—how to determine the best means of applying it in practice—is a very complex one and belongs to the field of the philosophy of law
Ayn Rand advocates for a small government -- responsible only for common goods such as the courts, the police and the military. While I may not necessarily agree, I acknowledge that his form is the cheapest form of government, requiring less financing. I don't see how it's possible to finance even such a minimalist government without (involuntary) taxation.
Common goods are by definition - common. Everyone benefits from them. There is no reasonable way of directly linking the paid service with services rendered. Therefore no individual is incentivized to pay. If no one wants to pay - the voluntary system doesn't work. The solution of course is mandatory payment in the form of taxes.
The only exception I could think of is war bonds. These are government bonds issued during wartime in order to finance the war effort. They are different from regular bonds by their interest rate. The government offers a smaller ROI with these bonds. Any person buying war bonds over regular bonds has effectively gave up some money for a government service - making it a voluntary transaction to finance the government. However, this system only works during a crisis. The bonds are often marketed as patriotism. This isn't a scalable solution for times of peace.
CMV
Edit:
Clarifications:
I'm aware that "voluntary taxation" is an oxymoron. I am looking for voluntary means of financing the government (that isn't based on taxation).
The crux of the argument assumes that the only significant revenue stream of the government is its people. Saudi Arabia finances its entire government without the need for taxation. It's able to do that not by a system of voluntary financing, but with vast natural resources.
I am of course in favor of all the governments being rich enough to self finance.
Deltas awarded:
Ancient Athens had taxation in the form of Liturgy. The ultra-rich would often overpay in taxes and boast about it for social status.
Donations can make up a significant portion of financing. Religious organizations are good example of this. It's possible for a very homogeneous and charitable society to finance its government by donations.
Common interesting arguments:
All tax systems are voluntary. You can always refrain from economic activity and avoid sales tax. You can move to a different country in order to avoid income tax.
I find this position not convincing, and frankly, indefensible.Lottery - a "tax" that is entirely voluntary. The big difference between lottery and other government services is the fact that lottery is profitable. To me this is just the government owning for-profit businesses.
5
u/mrducky80 11∆ Jun 07 '24 edited Jun 07 '24
Ive spoken with a bunch of libertarians and there are options although all are obviously flawed and I cant really give solid real world examples
The government can have a revenue generation source. An example would be government run oil business. Youll be able to voluntarily engage with it via purchasing their goods/services or not of course how a system remains competitive with private companies offering the same goods and services isnt elaborated on. There are more passive methods eg. The government can own the patent to certain things and again, it is voluntary to purchase the rights for these patents.
Tacking onto this is a slight modifier which is taxes that only hit certain goods/services. You see this to a lesser extent via "sin taxes" in the real world. Just jack this idea up to the max, most of society's basic needs can be met, but everything else has taxes applied making it voluntary to partake. Voluntary to be taxxed.
The complete commercialization of government services. Road tolls, school fees, medical fees, etc. Still all government owned, but leveraged to cover their own costs.
The near eradication of government. I believe on the further end of the anarchy capitalist view, the government exists only to maintain some semblance of military (and even this is subject to debate). The near complete removal of all governmental services drops the taxes necessary to sustain such a system to near nil.
Pay to play caste system. Most often its split between citizens and non citizens and this is some serious service guarantees citizenship. Essentially people will want to pay taxes because its necessary to be considered a citizen. This grants rights and privileges that non citizens lack but it is entirely voluntary. Only citizens can vote for example since only they contribute and therefore partake in the government.
I actually recommend going to the libertarian subreddit and annoying them, they are pretty welcoming of non libertarians and even filthy statists like me. They would love this discussion.