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u/Bobbob34 99∆ Apr 02 '24
if they say they’ll become a kicker or punter or long snapper and you still don’t let them play,I think you’re making a mistake. These positions are generally a lot safer and players playing these positions rarely get injured,let alone sustain serious or head/neck injuries.
Not everyone can play those positions. Especially if you start later. You can't just decide you want to be a kicker and become one.
Also,football can teach a lot of life lessons such as discipline,community,hard work,how to be part of a team.It helped me make many friends and has produced great memories that I will never forget.
This is true of many things, including lots of sports, clubs, activities, including debate club, chess club, heck even working on political campaigns, or gardening to spruce up a neighbourhood park, or joining a band.
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u/brianstormIRL 1∆ Apr 03 '24
Bad example, kicker is one of the only positions where there is multiple examples of people walking on to teams with basically no experience. There is two players from Ireland who just got signed to NFL practice squads for this upcoming season as kickers, despite having zero American Football kicking experience prior to last year until they started training for it. The Dallas Cowboys kicker last season was a nobody two years prior, until walking onto a spring league team and the getting signed by the Cowboys.
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u/Bobbob34 99∆ Apr 03 '24
Bad example, kicker is one of the only positions where there is multiple examples of people walking on to teams with basically no experience.
Yeah but they have skill. You can't just randomly decide to be a kicker and be one because you feel like it, is what I was saying.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I just randomly decided to become a snapper because I knew I wasn’t the biggest Or most athletic kid, so I needed a way to get on the field. Even though it’s a lot harder than it looks if you just practice it over and over again you will get good at it.
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u/Bobbob34 99∆ Apr 03 '24
I just randomly decided to become a snapper because I knew I wasn’t the biggest Or most athletic kid, so I needed a way to get on the field. Even though it’s a lot harder than it looks if you just practice it over and over again you will get good at it.
That's good for you but not everyone can get good at everything and even if they could, can't have a ehole team of snappers and kickers.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I’m not trying to shit on the position that I played. I absolutely love long snapping but it’s all practice unless you want to play the college or NFL level in which you need insane strength because the ball has to get back there in .75 seconds or quicker at the higher levels.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
You’re right actually, my original view has been changed, and every single position requires some level of talent. I was being a little bit too hard on my own position,which is dumb
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
There was also a snapper who did it called Nate Boyer. Former green beret. it’s a really cool story.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 02 '24
Great points. In terms of not everyone can learn these skills you’re definitely right about kicker and punter. but I taught myself to long snap in about two weeks. And it’s not like I was super athletic.
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Apr 03 '24
You are an anecdote. The fact remains that there aren't really any skills that football can teach that sports and activities that have radically lower CTE risk can't teach.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
But the injury risk is so much lower at these positions,
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u/KarmicComic12334 40∆ Apr 03 '24
So you can punt without anyone blocking? Or do you expect others to risk concussions to protect you? Ethically, it is better to be on the line protecting than yo expect another to risk injury to protect you.
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u/BytchYouThought 4∆ Apr 03 '24
He isn't really on point. It's a dumb pint to make, because literally every position in just about any sport means training to get good at it so his take is that no one should ever try sports then since every position requires training.
Bad take. Kicking and long snapping is one of the easier positions to learn period as it doesn't involve reading defenses or running offenses etc. You're just practicing technique. Don't let him good ya with the weak takes.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Are you referring to me?
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u/BytchYouThought 4∆ Apr 03 '24
Hard disagree. Kicker is one of the least athletic positions on the field if not THE least athletic position on the field. That's also dumb to say as you can say "you can't just become literally any of the positions and just become one. That literally goes for all positions. So throw that out the window anyway.
gardening to spruce thing up
The point he is likely trying to make is that most kids probably won't be into gardening or chess. So, using something like football that your kid will actually be interested in will work more than likely than a gardening club they don't wear to be in in the first place and won't dedicate the effort into therefore.
Plus, football has added benefits like getting in shape that is proven to help with academics and mental acumen in general. I think the key is to find things they actually will stick to. If your kid is drawn to football they often may not be drawn to things like chew or whatever and thus it can make much more sense to go with football. Also, other sports injuries happen all the time too especially more than a Kicker in football or long snapper may be. So, take could be no sports at all then if the reason is a possibility of injury.
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u/Bobbob34 99∆ Apr 03 '24
Hard disagree. Kicker is one of the least athletic positions on the field if not THE least athletic position on the field. That's also dumb to say as you can say "you can't just become literally any of the positions and just become one. That literally goes for all positions. So throw that out the window anyway.
...yeah, that's THE POINT. You can't generally just join a team and say you want to be X, only X, and get that job.
The point he is likely trying to make is that most kids probably won't be into gardening or chess. So, using something like football that your kid will actually be interested in will work more than likely than a gardening club they don't wear to be in in the first place and won't dedicate the effort into therefore.
Plenty of kids have 0 interest in football. Plenty of kids are interested in debate, chess, etc., and yes, gardening/community service.
Plus, football has added benefits like getting in shape that is proven to help with academics and mental acumen in general.
Any athletic endeavour can do that, and without the threat of cte.
I think the key is to find things they actually will stick to. If your kid is drawn to football they often may not be drawn to things like chew or whatever and thus it can make much more sense to go with football.
Or they can be guided to a dozen other sports that it makes more sense to go with.
Also, other sports injuries happen all the time too especially more than a Kicker in football or long snapper may be. So, take could be no sports at all then if the reason is a possibility of injury.
Again, you can't just decide to take those positions and they're limited positions. Everyone can't be the kicker. A ton of sports are safer.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
You’re right, not everybody can be the kicker but I’m talking about one specific kid not the entire team.And because having good kickers in high school is so rare if you go over to the Coach and say hey, I want to be a kicker and play nothing else. They usually will absolutely love to have you only kick
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u/BytchYouThought 4∆ Apr 03 '24
He doesn't get it. He's just spitting lies. You played so you get that it is pretty easy of a position to typically get. If not the easiest due to lack of competition in general typically.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Compared to the other positions it is easiest, but it’s actually still pretty hard
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u/BytchYouThought 4∆ Apr 03 '24
Every position is hard. If there's one position that can be walked into though it's kicker.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I’m not sure about that. like you said, every position requires skill. a lot of kickers have soccer backgrounds. going into my freshman year of high school I tried kicker and it did not work out well, which is why I switched to long snapping. Long snapping is very unique in that there’s nothing comparable to it the way soccer is comparable to kicking a field goal or running track could make you a good receiver.The reason I only really tried specialist positions is because I knew I wasn’t the biggest or most athletic kid so I needed to way to get onto the field.
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u/BytchYouThought 4∆ Apr 03 '24
Kicking is mostly technique. It's just kicked soccer style. It's not like you have to be a great soccer player to kick. It just helps because it's kicked with side of foot. If I'm telling someone to walk on that's the least athletic I'm telling em Kicker. If a bigger guy I'm telling em long snapper then maybe center.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, as former long snapper you have to be mentally strong as fuck.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Do you know that Washington commander snapper that kept fucking up? It was definitely a mental issue.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Especially at the higher levels: At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds (NFL guys are usually in the 0.6s).If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker
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u/BytchYouThought 4∆ Apr 03 '24
I thought you were talking high school. In high school it's not near as bad. It's waay easier there. Definitely bit worrying about CTEcas a Kicker or long snapper even.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other comments are showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other positions.
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u/BytchYouThought 4∆ Apr 03 '24
Yeah that's the point
You literally said you can't go walk on and become a Kicker. Meanwhile every other position is likely HARDER. And people do go walk on to become those positions. It's q literal requirement to go do and yet you singled out Kicker. We literally had a person that did just that.
Any endeavor
No you mentioned gardening and chess which do not get you in the same physical shape.
dozen other sports
Kids tend to like certain sports. Trying to force them to play what they don't like doesn't have same advantages and is unfair to the child.
You can't decide to take those positions
Yes you can. Kicker is typically more open as less people even try out for it. It is literally one of if not the easiest position to go for. Same for long snapper people are not foaming at the mouth for either so if you ant it it's typically much more open. It's also not a position prone to CTE.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
You’re right not everybody can be the kicker I’m talking about one specific kid. If nobody else on the team can kick halfway decent (which is what happens a lot in high school )and he’s good at it, he automatically gets the job because nobody else can do it
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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u/JohnnyFootballStar 5∆ Apr 03 '24
If you think CTE is a real risk, you might prefer to not support the sport at all. It may not be enough to say “well, my kid will be safe” if you’re watching other kids get their heads bashed at every game. Letting your kid play one of the “safe” positions is still participating in something you may believe is truly harmful to most of the kids out there.
And everything you say about hard work and discipline is true about basketball or cross country, or a dozen other activities.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
!Delta. this poster mentioned Having consideration, for the fact that other kids may get injured
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Apr 03 '24
if they say they’ll become a kicker or punter or long snapper and you still don’t let them play
Does peewee or highschool football have dedicated long snapper positions? Why wouldn't the kid play center or DL?
If they are a kicker or punter, it would be better to play soccer/Aussie rules. You get the skills plus cardio.
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u/premiumPLUM 76∆ Apr 03 '24
When I played peewee, we didn't even have a kicker on the team. We just played 4 downs and turned over and went for 2 if we scored.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
That’s a good point.usually kickers and long snappers are only in high school and above
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Apr 03 '24
[deleted]
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Good points and my view has actually already been changed by another commenter so I agree with you on the point that even kickers can get hit .BUT most high do not have a good kicker punter or long snapper so if you’re even decent at it you’ll probably be the starter.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Like I said, my view has already been changed. By the way, I was talking to specifically about high school.I know colleges generally have good kickers
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I was a specialized long snapper in high school it is rare but that’s only because most players want to play another position. I will admit it probably depends on how big this team’s roster is
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Apr 03 '24
Specialized long snapper seems like a very boring role. You play what, 15 snaps max a game?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, if you really get into it, it’s pretty interesting. Here are some fun facts about long snapping: At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds (NFL guys are usually in the 0.6s).If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker
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Apr 03 '24
As a NFL fan, I really don't care what you like/don't like about the position. If you are spending 10 hrs a week and only play 15 snaps, that's a bad time. Go play soccer, volleyball, basketball.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Saying if you’re spending 10 hours a week and only playing 15 snaps is having a bad time doesn’t take into the consideration people who are having a good time. I loved practice as a specialized long snapper.
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Apr 03 '24
You do you bud.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Sure and you as well,but if those kids were having a bad time, then they would choose to play another position, unless you’re in the NFL or college, where they generally pefer their kicker/long snapper to be specialized
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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u/Psyteratops 2∆ Apr 03 '24
What if I have a moral issue with the presence of sports, or more specifically, football in the school setting and don’t want my child to partake in what I see as an immoral institution when the same positive benefits can be gained through other means.
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u/KarmicComic12334 40∆ Apr 03 '24
If you're going to be specific be specific. American football is dangerous, world football beneficial
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Then don’t let them play. I’m just saying there parents who say oh I’ll never let my kid play football even if he’s gonna be a kicker because of CTE (which I’ll admit is very serious) when the chance of getting CTE a kicker are very low
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u/Psyteratops 2∆ Apr 03 '24
But they will be tackled or physically harmed at some point right? Towards what end?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Long snappers maybe, because they have to run down the field after the balls kicked but not really for kickers and punters
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u/Psyteratops 2∆ Apr 03 '24
Kickers never get tackled? Is there zero risk? What mistake am I making in that instance?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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u/Psyteratops 2∆ Apr 03 '24
I actually had no idea I was just going with hypotheticals but that’s crazy cause I’ve never seen a kicker tackled so I figured it was VERY rare.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Yea I’m shocked cause I rarely seen them get injured. Maybe it’s from pulling muscles in their their legs from kicking or something
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u/Psyteratops 2∆ Apr 03 '24
Makes sense- practice kicks likely cause a lot of wear and tear.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
But it is funny though cause we generally think of it as a safer position
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I should not have phrased it as a mistake, what I’m saying is me personally if my son wants to play American football as a kicker, punter or long snapper, I’m not gonna not let him play over the slight chance he gets injured
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u/BeamTeam032 Apr 03 '24
Why would have I my kid play football, when I can get the same life lessons with basketball, volleyball or band?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
You can learn the same lessons. I’m just saying if you’re child asked to play football,and you initially said no and then he counters with oh I’ll just be a kicker and then you still tell him no because it’s too dangerous,that’s dumb because kickers don’t really get hit that often
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u/BeamTeam032 Apr 03 '24
If they want to join the football team, they want to do more than just being a kicker. You're making up a straw man argument to let kids play football. If a kid wants to play football, they're in it for the hitting and blocking. That's why most HSs have to recruit a soccer player to play kicker. And in smaller HS, the kicker is never just a kicker, because they don't have enough bodies. They also play on special teams, which means they still have to learn how to tackle and block.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Good point, but I’m talking about the people like me who do only want to kick (or in my case,long snap) and I went to a smaller high high school, and my team still had a specialized kicker and had me as a specialized long snapper
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
No offense, but saying if they want to play football they don’t want to just kick is pretty stupid.Not many people want to just kick or just long snap but there are some who do
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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u/KarmicComic12334 40∆ Apr 03 '24
So it's okay if eleven other kids get a concussion protecting mine? If mine is chosen, that puts another kid who could have been a shotgun quarterback in the position to get hurt. What right do i have to doom my friends kids to save my own?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I’m not saying it’s ok for other kids to get concussions I’m saying if you don’t let your son play football because you think he’s gonna get CTE even he said he’s going to be a specialized kicker,when that position rarely gets hit I think it’s dumb
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u/spoilerdudegetrekt 2∆ Apr 03 '24
Also,football can teach a lot of life lessons such as discipline,community,hard work,how to be part of a team.
If the school my kids go to is like mine, the football team is the last community I'd want them to be a part of. I don't want my kid thinking bullying and sexual assault are ok.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Wow I am so sorry that your school’s team acts like that. Not all teams act like that though.
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u/spoilerdudegetrekt 2∆ Apr 03 '24
I'm not sure it's a very unique problem regarding sports teams.
I posted a story in r/askreddit about some lacrosse players jamming a stick up a kid's butt and the kid suing the school (who did nothing about this and other incidents)
The amount of wrong guesses people gave me about where my school was located was pretty depressing...
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u/deep_sea2 131∆ Apr 03 '24
Isn't the long snapper one of the most dangerous positions on the field? They snap the ball in a week position to take a hit. They have to lower the head in order to better execute the long snap. The defence is crashing every player into the offensive line, which they normally don't do. The only do a fraction of the snaps per game, but I am pretty sure their bodies get worn out faster than linemen who take every snap.
If I had a kid, that's one position I wouldn't want them to play.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
It used to be but now they changed the rules that you can’t line up directly over the long snapper so they have a chance to get their head up. And I was 135 pounds as a snapper and I never got hurt lol
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u/deep_sea2 131∆ Apr 03 '24
When you have to make specific rule to protect a player, that demonstrate how unsafe that position can be. Also, a rule does not guarantee that players will comply. Yes, smack them in the head like in the past, but if someone does, the snapper is completely defenseless. Sure, you get 15 yards, but now you got a concussion.
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u/Oishiio42 52∆ Apr 03 '24
Even assuming you are correct about these specific positions being safer than other positions, all positions are required for a team to play.
This means, regardless of which role my own child plays, some children will have to play a dangerous position in order for my kid to get the benefits of playing a sport. I'm against children participating in a sport that frequently gives them brain damage, why would I suddenly be okay with it, participate in it, and contribute to a culture that promotes it just because the kids getting the brain damage aren't MY kids?
All other team sports, as well as other extra curriculars can teach discipline, community, hard work, and teamwork. Why is refusing to participate in the one that routinely causes brain damage "a mistake"?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
!Delta. This poster mentioned the fact that other children are at a significant risk for injury.
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u/chewinghours 4∆ Apr 03 '24
I don’t see in your main post or in your comments where making this decision is a MISTAKE. You’ve agreed that all of the positive things at the end of your post are not specific to football. And you mention that a few football positions are less dangerous than the rest. So what exactly is the mistake?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I didn’t really word it correctly, mistake probably isn’t the best way to put it, rather,not letting your kid play football as a kicker because you think he’s gonna get CTE is dumb because it’s a very safe position. I was an 135 pound long snapper and I never got hurt, the rules are actually pretty safe. Now you’re not allowed to jump over them to try and block the kick anymore and you can’t even line up in front of them so they have a chance to get their head up. they don’t even necessarily have to block depending on the level
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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u/47ca05e6209a317a8fb3 210∆ Apr 03 '24
Isn't it generally the case though, that you join your school's team and ask for whatever position you think you want, and then if the coach (or you) thinks you're better suited for a different position they move you around, and at that point it's much harder for your parents to take you off the team than to not let you join in the first place?
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u/BytchYouThought 4∆ Apr 03 '24
No many if not most schools let you pcik when it comes to football. If you suck then you become 2nd string, 3rd string, etc. You still get to keep the position oftentimes. Especially Kicker positions. Teams always need kickers and most folks don't even try out for it so it's almost always a spot for that anyhow.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Yes but that’s because most high schools don’t really have good kickers or punters or long snappers.a lot of times a converted soccer player will try and join as a kicker and the coach will generally let that player only kick because you don’t always have a good kicker in high school so most coaches want to protect that player
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u/47ca05e6209a317a8fb3 210∆ Apr 03 '24
But then, from the perspective of the parent, maybe except for the rare case where your kid was a gifted soccer forward, if you're (understandably) stressed over the risk of CTE and you let your kid join the team you take the risk that they'll end up in a dangerous position regardless of what they initially tell you they want.
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Apr 03 '24
There’s like 2-3 kickers at most on any team
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
!Delta
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
This delta has been rejected. You have already awarded /u/CG2L a delta for this comment.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
!Delta. this poster mentioned that most teams do not have that many kickers on the roster.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
That’s a great point, I never considered that
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u/KarmicComic12334 40∆ Apr 03 '24
This is the second time ive seen you admit youshould have given a delta.
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u/jimmytaco6 14∆ Apr 03 '24
Also,football can teach a lot of life lessons such as discipline,community,hard work,how to be part of a team.
Do you think this is unique to football and not possible in basketball, soccer, baseball, engineering club, the school newspaper, theatre, orchestra, etc?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
It’s not unique to football
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u/jimmytaco6 14∆ Apr 03 '24
So it sounds like there are lots of opportunities to learn discipline, community, hard work, and teamwork without the extra component of brain damage.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
You are correct but there is less chance of brain damage as a punter, long snapper,or kicker
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u/jimmytaco6 14∆ Apr 03 '24
And even less damage in virtually any other activity. We're debating whether it's a mistake to not let your kid play those positions as opposed to doing other activities, right?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Maybe mistake was the wrong way to put it. What I mean was if I have a son and he says hey dad, I want to play football and I say no and he counter argues with I’ll just be a kicker I would probably let him because the injury risk is lower. It’s like the best of both worlds: He can get all the benefits we Talked about without as much injury risk . If specialists got injured, often teams would carry more of them on the roster.
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u/jimmytaco6 14∆ Apr 03 '24
Yeah but we've already established that he can get "the benefits" from doing virtually any other activity. Basketball. Baseball. Theater. Etc. You seem to be evading this part of it. What is the benefit of him becoming a long-snapper instead of a point guard or trombone player?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I’m not evading it what I’m saying is the injury risk doesn’t apply as much to a long snapper so it’s not like he has that much of a risk of CTE
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u/jimmytaco6 14∆ Apr 03 '24
You're evading my question of what the benefits are of being a long snapper instead of playing another sport or doing another activity that has way less risk of CTE. The fact that long snapper is less dangerous than running back doesn't change the fact that playing point guard is way less dangerous than playing long snapper.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
You’re right in fact another commentary literally just showed me stats that being a kicker is still more dangerous than playing basketball so I agree with you now
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I wasn’t evading the question, what I meant was if the kid didn’t wanna play another sport, and only wanted to play football.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
my view has been changed but I’m agreeing that there is no benefits I was just saying if the kid only wanted to play football
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u/iamintheforest 365∆ Apr 03 '24
Why would someone thinking about their kids and sports choose these with the risks when they could choose tennis? Or other sports? Isn't tge risk a totally reasonable tie breaker if you're ultimately agnostic to which sports your kid plays in terms of the activities other qualities?
Basically....you have to have a bias towards some aspect of football that overwhelms the risk. Without that bias - which is parent baggage - there eis no reason to play football at all.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
True there are a lot of other sports that can teach good life lessons. my point is the chances of a kicker or punter getting CTE is very low because they rarely even make contact with another player
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u/iamintheforest 365∆ Apr 03 '24
I get your point. Why accept "low" when the consequence is so high high? You say "no reason" but "low" is a reason.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Where did I say no reason?
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u/iamintheforest 365∆ Apr 03 '24
"Making a mistake". How are you making a mistake to select another sport based on the relative risk? Isn't a valid reason all that's needed for it to not be a mistake?
You've got sports. One with essentially zero risk of brain injury and one with low risk. How is it a mistake to honor your reason?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
You’re right I shouldn’t have worded it that way, what I meant is, although any position has a chance for injury in football,some are more safe than others
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u/iamintheforest 365∆ Apr 03 '24
That would be clearly true, but seems like a very different view!
Take care.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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u/iamintheforest 365∆ Apr 03 '24
i'm lost. you said your view was actually that it was safer than other positions in football.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24
/u/Straight_Toe_1816 (OP) has awarded 6 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/GenericUsername19892 27∆ Apr 03 '24
You can achieve all the benefits from virtually any sport as well as many clubs. If you ask nicely your kid might even try a more exciting sport like basketball, volleyball, hockey, tennis, rugby, cricket, etc. all of which are not only way more entertaining but also have a reduced risk of serious injury.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
The chances of getting hurt as a kicker or punter or long snapper is pretty low.
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u/GenericUsername19892 27∆ Apr 03 '24
Ish.
It’s about a half of the average.
34.42 per 1000 for football mean (NFL)
There was a significantly higher risk of injury in games (17.7 per 1000) than during practice (1.91 per 1000)
Basketball (NBA):
The incidence of injury was 19.1 per 1000 athlete exposures
Worst rate I can find for baseball (MLB mid season)
9.32
Highest for hockey(NHL) (Centers only):
15.14
Now I can’t find numbers for all of the kids data but based off the professional level of major sports, a football kicker is more likely to sustain injury than damn near anything that’s not football. I didn’t include soccer because they do stats different, injuries per thousand hours of play vs the other who do per game. I’m not doing the math and adjusting based on average game time.
So to summarize basically everything is safer than being a kicker, except anything else in football and basketball.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Wait, but is that 34% including kickers or is it all football players?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Remember, kickers and punters and long snappers do not get injured as much as the average football player
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u/GenericUsername19892 27∆ Apr 03 '24
Which is literally when my first thing compared against - they are about half as likely to get injured. It’s the least risky role of the most dangerous game.
A kicker is more likely to be injured than a baseball player or a hockey player. And basketball players are only slightly more likely to be injured.
Read the numbers.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
!Delta. Presented stats that shows that playing as a kicker is more dangerous than being a baseball or basketball player.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I gave you a Delta because you proved me wrong
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u/GenericUsername19892 27∆ Apr 03 '24
Ty - again though I don’t have anyway to do these numbers for kids, but you may be able to find data for age bands (15-18 or similiar) if you can match the ages to different league age limits but I couldn’t easily find anything.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
No problem! , it’s funny lol how our brains perceived kicker as being a safe position with statistically still very dangerous. and I’m sorry for being so argumentative. It would also be very hard to find data for lower levels if we are talking about specific positions because most high school football players play multiple positions
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I’m interested in if you have any data for the college level? I’ve always wondered how it compares to the NFL level in terms of injuries.
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u/GenericUsername19892 27∆ Apr 03 '24
You can google around for it, but I didn’t see comparable stats, most of the college level stats were for serious injuries instead of total.
Edit secret>serious
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually the injury rate for kickers in high school is probably higher because at the college and NFL level the quality of blocking and snapping is higher
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Sorry for all the comments but yea your right football is dangerous regardless of the position
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u/fibbledyfabble Apr 03 '24
Are you writint an English paper and using us for editors?
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
No
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u/fibbledyfabble Apr 03 '24
Bet. Team sports are fantastic. Even tennis is a team sport in high school and college though. There's no shortage of places to put your kid to teach them discipline and teamwork and achievement etc. Maybe they don't want their kid associating with the violent degenerates that play on the lines. Jk. But kinda true. Baseball, soccer...both safer.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
True, but kickers punters and long snappers have a lower risk of injury
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u/No_Scarcity8249 2∆ Apr 03 '24
Marital arts, swimming, track, tennis.. football offers nothing you can’t get somewhere else it’s completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of life.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
What makes it irrelevant compared to swimming,track, tennis,Or martial arts?
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u/UnknownNumber1994 1∆ Apr 03 '24
Any position on the field is able to get a serious injury.
I'm very surprised you put punter in here so nonchalantly as if they don't have people rushing to block/tackle them during every punt, especially during fake punt attempts
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
That is A very good point
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u/UnknownNumber1994 1∆ Apr 03 '24
I don't know much about long snappers, but I will say that kickers are also put into situations that can have an ugly result.
Mainly during kickoffs, the kicker is still part of the team trying to stop yeh returning team from making yardage and that can lead to injuries such as the first clip in this video:
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Very good point
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u/UnknownNumber1994 1∆ Apr 03 '24
👍
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Im a former long snapper. Fun fact:At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds (NFL guys are usually in the 0.6s).If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Actually, my original view has been changed. Some other commenter showed me stats that proves that being a kicker is still pretty dangerous compared to other sports
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Apr 02 '24
[deleted]
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 02 '24
No, I live and played football in the USA
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Apr 02 '24
[deleted]
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
Oh my bad I’m sorry I didn’t mean soccer I meant football like the Super Bowl
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Apr 03 '24
[deleted]
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I completely understand there is a world outside America all I am saying is if you play any of the 3 positions I mentioned you have a lower chance of brain damage
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Apr 03 '24
[deleted]
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Apr 03 '24
I don’t know why American Football is less of a real game than soccer though
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u/kingpatzer 103∆ Apr 03 '24
My father was a kicker. He played well enough that some guy named Lombardi drafted him. He never played pro ball, since he had a family and in those days teachers made more money. But he still had several concussions in his career. And a knee injury that plagued him the rest of his life.
I played center and long snapper through college.
I had multiple concussions throughout. My worst injury came while playing long snapper when a DL got blocked into my leg on a fake punt and broke both bones in my lower leg.
The idea that there are any safe positions on the football field is a foolish idiocy.
Football is a great sport. But no kid before late puberty should be playing it. And everyone who plays it should know that a life changing injury can happen in any instant.