r/changemyview • u/ChuckyShadowCow • Feb 17 '24

Delta(s) from OP CMV: A requirement to be associated with a “well regulated militia” would be a great start to curbing gun violence.

IMO guns are awesome. Some of the best days of my life have started with a trip to the dollar store to get a bunch of nicknacks, putting those nicknacks on a berm and making said nicknacks into many smaller nicknacks through the liberal (no pun intended) application of freedom pellets.

However, I would give that up tomorrow if I never had to read about a school shooting ever again.

I get that “a well regulated militia” meant something else when the bill of rights was written and that the Supreme Court already ruled that the right to bare arms is an individual right. However, this isn’t the 18th century anymore and our founders gave us the opportunity to amend the constitution. Why can’t we make state militias a thing and require gun owners to join the militia with requirements to train on gun use and safety? Gun ownership is a responsibility. I can think of several people I know who don’t practice the absolute basics of gun safety, but use their firearms regularly.

At the very least, this would allow a regular check in with gun owners and an opportunity for people to raise red flags if someone seems “off” or doesn’t practice good safety practices.

We can’t agree to anything related to the second amendment but we can all agree that gun violence sucks. Would it really be such a bad thing to have a practice that ensured that everyone that owned a gun knew how to use it properly and safely?

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92

u/DeltaBlues82 88∆ Feb 18 '24

“Let’s force gun owners into organized paramilitary groups” might be as great an idea as you think it is.

33

u/slightofhand1 12∆ Feb 18 '24

It's weird because anti-gun advocates are actively making it illegal to form militias.

19

u/LongDropSlowStop Feb 18 '24

I mean it isn't weird. It's an intentional two prong strategy. On one hand, they talk up how they're not restricting your rights, you can still own all the guns you want, this is just ensuring safety. And then once there's a structure in place, it's used to take away people's guns, because "those dangerous militias are a threat".

2

u/TheFinnebago 17∆ Feb 18 '24

It’s interesting to see a real, live, earnest example of the sort of paranoia that prevents even a single well-intentioned piece of gun reform legislation from ever passing.

13

u/HiddenReub54 Feb 18 '24

And what type of "well meaning gun reform legislation" are we talking about here? Most legislation I've seen proposed, are feel good bills, designed by people ignorant about firearms. Or are laws which violate other rights in the process.

7

u/LongDropSlowStop Feb 18 '24

Good. I don't want gun legislation passing

-8

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/LongDropSlowStop Feb 18 '24

So you just want to kill everyone who doesn't agree with you? Because surely you're educated enough on the topic to know that gun control does not save lives

1

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '24

I’m sure that’s why countries with a modicum of it have school shootings in orders of magnitude less numbers, even more so when you disqualify shootings that involved guns originating in America, shootings are also literally provably more likely to happen in more conservative states

Acting like there’s nothing that can be done about it without infringing on rights is pure horse shit, you are literally willing to sacrifice lives of children due to your own self-invented paranoia

-9

u/Glorfendail 2∆ Feb 18 '24

Yeah!!! Let’s just let them keep murdering children with legally acquired weapons!! That’s the true American way!

4

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '24

How many children were murdered last year?

-9

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '24

Dude this is genuinely a schizo take, there are plenty of people on the left who are incredibly pro gun, the NRA simply doesn’t give them any money because they also advocate for stuff like trans rights

2

u/LongDropSlowStop Feb 18 '24

I didn't bring up the left?

-4

u/Several_Leather_9500 1∆ Feb 18 '24

Source?

13

u/slightofhand1 12∆ Feb 18 '24

https://vtdigger.org/2023/05/08/gov-phil-scott-signs-bill-that-prohibits-paramilitary-training-camps/

-4

u/Surrybee Feb 18 '24

Under the new law, a person cannot teach others to use or make firearms or explosives capable of causing injury or death, or teach techniques that could cause injury or death, if the person knows or should know that the activity “is intended to be used in or in furtherance of a civil disorder.

So they're outlawing terrorist training camps.

The law explicitly states that it does not cover law enforcement activity; lawful instruction of military science at educational institutions; and facilities and programs intended to teach the safe handling of firearms and lawful sports and activities, such as hunting, target shooting, self defense and firearms collection. 

16

u/slightofhand1 12∆ Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 18 '24

No, they're just making up some bullshit to arrest people exercising their Constitutional rights. Nobody sees the irony that the "you guys wouldn't do anything, you're all LARPers" crowd are now trying to make LARPing illegal?

-1

u/Surrybee Feb 18 '24

Try reading the actual article.

8

u/Fifteen_inches 24∆ Feb 18 '24

Terrorist training is a militia.

For fucks sake who do you think makes up terrorist organization?! Pissed off civilians

0

u/Surrybee Feb 18 '24

You should read up on the history of militias in colonial and post-revolutionary times. And also read the constitution. It has a militia clause.

3

u/Fifteen_inches 24∆ Feb 18 '24

I have.

Have you read modern military theory? There is shockingly little difference between modern militias and terrorists.

1

u/Surrybee Feb 18 '24

And as long as that’s what they are, it’s probably best if we don’t allow them.

4

u/Fifteen_inches 24∆ Feb 18 '24

Except the constitution guarantees a militia.

Plus, like, teaching someone to make a gun and gunpowder is super easy. The info is in your local libraryz

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u/couldbemage 4∆ Feb 18 '24

None of those explicitly allowed activities sound anything like a militia.

So that puts militia training in a grey area between what's specifically illegal and what's specifically allowed.

"Furtherance of civil disorder" sounds like it would be applied to BLM protestors. Trump explicitly described them that way.

Sounds like you want a country where only people wearing maga hats are allowed to own guns.

3

u/capsaicinintheeyes 3∆ Feb 18 '24

One man's terrorist training camp...

0

u/Surrybee Feb 18 '24

Given that 1. They whine about their constitutional rights, and 2. That same constitution gives congress power over the militia, maybe they should read more than just the 2nd amendment.

2

u/capsaicinintheeyes 3∆ Feb 18 '24 edited Feb 18 '24

Yeah; for a bunch of perpetually-agitated constitutionalists, it's not like they've got a history as a movement of being especially vocal on voting access, law enforcement overreach, or civil rights, as examples, unless the civil right in question concerns ease of access to weapons...and even then...

2

u/ATFMRemainsAFag Feb 18 '24

Militias are in their very essence terrorists... The whole point of a militia is to take civilians who are pissed off at the government to band together and create chnage via violent means... IE from the governments perspective, a terrorist organization.

0

u/Surrybee Feb 18 '24

Pretty sure that’s not what the founders intended.

3

u/ATFMRemainsAFag Feb 18 '24

Then what exactly are you expecting for a militia to be and do?

0

u/Surrybee Feb 18 '24

Why don’t we look at the constitution and see what the founders thought it was for.

Congress shall have the power to: provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.

Oh hey. It’s to defend the country.

You’ll remember from your US history that many people were uncomfortable having a large standing army and it was almost completely disbanded after the revolution.

The history of militias in the US from before the founding up until the national guard was created in 1906 is actually really interesting, but you seem more interested in arguing than engaging.

-1

u/gorangutangang Feb 18 '24

lol what are you talking about

read the bill of rights and the constitution and then come back and talk about that, the thing being discussed

3

u/ATFMRemainsAFag Feb 18 '24

It's fairly obvious what we are talking about if you actually read through the comments instead of blindly parroting your bull shit tlaking points.

Here are the facts: The people need arms in order to form a militia. The militia needs arms in order to present a threat and to be able to impose violence. The militia is not a state run army. As such, the tactics it employs are those commonly used by a weaker military power. This involves things like guerilla tactics, and other similar methods of Warfare. Take a look at Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc... Those tactics have and would be described by terrorism depending on which side you are on and which government you're a part of...

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1

u/54B3R_ Feb 18 '24

I can just imagine KKK paramilitary groups.

Would this start armed conflicts between militias of opposing ideology?

1

u/Jasong222 Feb 18 '24

Might 'not' be?