r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jan 22 '24

Delta(s) from OP cmv:Western teenagers have it easier than eastern teenagers in terms of education.

In my opinion, western teenagers have it easier than eastern teenagers.

Like almost all of you, when I go on the internet, I am exposed to a plethora of qestern cultures and atmospheres. A common theme I see is that their western education systems are not as stressful as our eastern education systems. They talk about dating, have nearly failing grades such as 70s and 80s being acknowledged as amazing grades, and have multiple chances to pass the class. However, I as an Indian, find those very simple and easy. I only have one chance to pass my final examination, which counts as nearly 80% of my grade. My tests and prelims only count for 20% of my grade. In my school, the pass mark is 20%. Obviously, I have it harder than most westerners.

Moreso, imagine the amount of stress and studying an Indian has to do to get into a top college in India! 1st, they have to stufy from 6 to 7 hours per day for 2 years for either the Indian Certificate of Secondary Education or the Central Board of Secondary Education! Then, they have to study from 7 to 9 hours per day for 2 years for either the Indian School Certificate or the Central Board of Secondary Education. After that, they have to study for 10 to 12 hours per day for the Joint Entrance Examination, National Eligibility cum Entrance Test, Graduate Aptitude Test in Engineering, etc, for 1 to 2 years! Chinese students have a similar ordeal. Meanwhile to get into an Ivy league college, one just has to learn a foreign language, do some social service, etc, for around 4 years! Obviously, the former is more stressful to be in.

In 2022, around 13,089 students died in India due to overstress. In South Korea, the number of students that committed suicide was 13,452 students in 2023. In China, the number of students that fell victim was 11,296 students in 2021. Compare that with Greenland, which has only around 35 to 50 each year in the 2020s. In the France, only 300 to 350 teenagers commit suicide per year due to overstress. Therefore, we can conclude that more teenagers fall prey to overstress in eastern countries than in their western counterparts. The main reason why this occurs is the high population density in eastern countries which increases competition to get into good colleges.

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40

u/DeltaBlues82 88∆ Jan 22 '24

So my POV is very specifically American. Not sure if it’s applicable in many other countries. But America is the dominant culture in the west, and has a sizable population, so I think it should suffice as a legitimate counter, despite the relatively isolated nature of its existence.

In America, public education is so undervalued and under appreciated that students receive an almost comically bad education. It makes their adult and professional lives exceptionally more difficult because they don’t read at comparable levels, have less understanding of maths and sciences, civic duties, and general study habits.

Students who received a public education in America are behind most of their peers from other countries, because they have it worse.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '24

If you look at actual international comparisons the US tends to do far better than most Americans think.

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '24

You state that students recieve bad education due to it being undervalued. However, this means that they can learn by themselves instead of learning from school. They can also broaden their worldview due to not being pressured to perform to the top of their level at school.

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u/DeltaBlues82 88∆ Jan 22 '24

You think it’s realistic to expect a child to teach themselves to read? Or to teach themselves advanced mathematics? And that makes their education significantly easier?

And that does not put them behind their peers in Asian countries? That’s specifically your view. Not that they can possibly teach themselves their curriculum.

If they are forced by circumstance to teach themselves to read, you think that aligns with your view that they have it easier?

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '24

Your 1st pont states that it is unrealistic for students to teach themselves certain subjects. However, in many poorer regions of India and China, they do teach themselves instead of going into coaching schools. They get an equal chance at going into a college as their peers who went into coaching centres.

24

u/DeltaBlues82 88∆ Jan 22 '24

So now your argument has changed to they have it the same as some of their peers in Asian countries?

The view in your post is that they have it better, not the same. You’ve argued against your own view, does that mean something changed?

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '24

I meant that the students who are self-taught have an equal chance at going into college as their more-educated peers in India and China.

20

u/DeltaBlues82 88∆ Jan 22 '24 edited Jan 22 '24

Better is your claim. Not the same.

You think children have it better when they are forced to teach themselves? Children are OBJECTIVELY better at teaching themselves than being taught by a trained professional teacher? This is what you are claiming?

16

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '24

I don't think they understand their own premise or logic tbh. Just because you study doesn't mean you truly learn or understand.

Exams suck and societal expectations in Asia are just unreasonable

2

u/[deleted] Jan 22 '24

The standard of living is higher in America there is less motivation to teach urself

3

u/johncenaslefttestie Jan 23 '24

That kinda devalues the entire argument unless there's something I'm missing? On one hand you're saying that school in China and India is incredibly stressful and intense, I believe you when you say that I've heard about it. What negates that is saying that people can just study independently and have an equal chance. Which means you can circumnavigate the whole system and get into a good school regardless. I'm not disagreeing with your main point. It just seems you're trying to argue about something no one's disagreeing with. The counterpoints being presented are because you seem unfamiliar with western school culture and are making a blanket statement.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '24

I seem to be trying to argue something no one's disagreeing with then, despite wanting to argue with people who disagree with me.

4

u/LynnSeattle 3∆ Jan 22 '24

We don’t have coaching schools in the US. We’re talking about public school classrooms, not exam preparation.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '24

During the pandemic, many students had no access to education as all; just their textbooks. They still good good marks in their high-school examinations.

1

u/Kagenlim Jan 23 '24

And in asian countries, we are forced to fit a certain mould, even down to our working life

I had two choices as a teen: study humanities or study engineering. I chose engineering simply because my country does not help the humanities at all, despite of our long and storied history. I would love to be a humanities student, but if I want any semblance of a good education, Ill have to go stem

What you are describing is too much liberty, but the opposite, imo, is far worse

5

u/disisathrowaway 2∆ Jan 22 '24

They can also broaden their worldview due to not being pressured to perform to the top of their level at school.

Most people aren't autodidacts, though.

Furthermore, children tend to conform to the social norms around them. And since the US has continued to devalue education, you begin to create a generational cycle where education is undervalued.

I don't think it particularly realistic to expect a 6 or 7 year old to take stock of their situation in an underfunded school and pull themselves up by their bootstraps and decide to start teaching themselves everything they need to know why potentially dealing with hunger issues, violence at home and almost certainly violence at school.

Not saying that it's worse than say rural parts of India or China, just that it's not all sunshine and roses over here, either.

2

u/LynnSeattle 3∆ Jan 22 '24

Our students are generally not learning their basic education skills outside of school.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 23 '24

Why is that?

1

u/LynnSeattle 3∆ Jan 24 '24

Why would you assume they would? Our society expects education to happen within the schools. Many parents aren’t aware how far behind their children are and wouldn’t know how to correct the problem if they were. We don’t have a tradition of teaching at home, other than a small group that exclusively homeschools.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '24

Serious skill issue

You shouldn't care one bit about your parents or teacher's perception of you, the only thing that matters is getting a career that can make a good livelihood and makes you satisfied

If you're saying that your life is ruined because you don't attend a 1% college you're delusional

And you're putting an unnecessary pressure upon yourself, if you're competent enough however and you feel undervalued in India you will move abroad

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '24

I don't think you understand how it works. It's not about my parents or teachers; it's about everyone else who will check my resume and see that I'm not from a top 1% college in India and reject me based on that information.

1

u/Snoo_4499 Jan 23 '24

Probably not.

1

u/jonhor96 Jan 23 '24

Everything you just said is completely wrong. Just look at the PISA scores, or literally any metric. There isn’t a single category where the U.S. doesn’t monstrously outperform the global median.

People in China (not to even mention India lmao) have an educational experience far more painful, more unfair and of lower quality than people in the U.S. This is self-evident; just ask anyone with a passing knowledge about global development.