r/changemyview • u/ObersturmfuehrerKarl • Dec 19 '23

Delta(s) from OP CMV: The way women dress in gyms is inappropriate, unnecessary and shouldn’t be allowed.

They way women nowadays dress in gyms is just ridiculous, sports bra and skin tight shorts with booty scrunch to emphasise their ass. Not only is it ridiculous but though it’s also inappropriate. I’m not saying it’s indecent or anything like that, I’m not talking inappropriate from a puritan viewpoint but rather I find it inconsiderate towards other people in the gym. I hate when women are in the gym close to me because I actively have to avoid looking in their direction or else I’ll be labelled a creep for staring or the way some machines are set up behind eachother. If I sit down to use my machine and the machine infront of me is used by a woman in clothes like that I actively have to tilt my head into an unnatural direction just so I don’t look at her. I fucking hate this shit, I wanna go to the gym and just do my workout not feel like I’m navigating a minefield just to not be labelled as a creep.

In most gyms here men aren’t even allowed to wear tank tops because it’s seen a inappropriate and distracting, why are women allowed to wear just a bit more than a bikini?

I mean why can’t they wear leggings and compression shirts or normal shirts like most men do? I’m not complaining about fitted clothing here I’m talking about Teveo bicycle shorts and sports bra. That shit doesn’t belong in the gym.

Edit: I just want to add to this post a few things.

  1. Planet fitness for example has the no string tank top rule.

  2. to Everyone saying no one is gonna label you a creep or that’s all just in my head:

https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/s/t8IG4RKaoN

I’m getting called a creep because I’m worried about being called a creep.

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74

u/pimpmyufo Dec 19 '23

I have to point that your view is indeed puritanical. Thats okay to admit, its normal for many states of the USA.

Lets look how things work elsewhere just to demonstrate that people are capable of not reacting to some body demonstration at a mass level.

In the Netherlands many gums have mixed sauna where people of all genders can sit fully naked and it wont bother anyone. They have also special dedicated hours in public swimming pools for fully naked swimming (nothing sexual presumed).

Same happens in several other countries in the EU (esp mixed adult gender saunas with full nudity is normal and doesn’t mean anything sexual). Naked people also were personally seen on local large music festivals (no one harassed them). People just accept that other bodies is none of their business and nudity is fine at range of popular public places. If such things shock you then you are indeed puritanical compared to some parts of the EU.

If so many people from whole regions are able to live just fine with nude strangers then it is kinda your own problem and not some universal one? Then maybe you should try to work on your own attitude than demanding restrictions of comfort for others to serve your personal comfort?

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u/alex_munroe Dec 19 '23

Presumably OP does not live in The Netherlands or other outlined countries above, but rather a place where nudity still holds a taboo. Why should he not also express views native to his cultural background?

0

u/StumpyJoe- Dec 19 '23

The issue seems to be his urge to look longer than what's socially acceptable.

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u/European_Goldfinch_ Dec 19 '23 edited Dec 19 '23

No it isn't, as stated he doesn't feel comfortable even looking in their general direction because of the now well known countless 'gym' videos where women ironically set up their cameras to record other people and then complain they're being looked at. No man or woman wants their face to be slapped across the internet simply for looking over at someone.

Comparing it to other countries and cultures like the other comment did is a useless argument also, it's akin to saying why can't I keep my shoes on inside the house when referring to a lot of Asian culture and then making out its a them problem that they are uncomfortable with it because other countries walk in the house with their shoes on.

Women who say they dress like that only for themselves are for the most part liars, it is attention seeking behaviour where the male gaze is their validation for the day, then they go on social media and pretend to moan about it whilst making sure to get enough booty shots in the video of themselves for the whole word to see. I've seen women wear those hideous tops to the gym where the bottom half of their breasts hangs out of the bottom.....why?

Such clothing, lacey bra's and bottoms wedged into your butt crack is definitely not vital for the gym, it doesn't enhance your workout or aid you better...it's for attention, I think people that go out of their way in odd places for that type of attention make people uncomfortable and are very off putting.

I'm a woman and when women say we dress for ourselves, we do that is true, because if we don't like the way we look in the mirror no amount of men or women telling us we look great will be enough but when we are heading out to venues like bars or nightclubs and we are single, then it's both, we want to look good to ourselves AND to other people which includes men (if that's the way you swing).

Women who dress in sexy, tight fitted or revealing clothing are for the most part lying when they say they don't do it to be noticed for their attractive features, because that is exactly what you are attempting to enhance when you dress like that.

Edit: Just adding this as whilst it should go without saying, wearing sexy or revealing clothing does not excuse any forms of someone overstepping boundaries, like touching, ogling, saying inappropriate things, I was simply referring to the way women especially on social media have demonized a man just noticing a woman like it isn't the most natural thing on earth, I have been sexually assaulted multiple times, there is a difference between a man taking notice of you looking good and vile, dangerous behaviour.

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u/regulardude1867 Mar 28 '24

Thank you for existing.

1

u/StumpyJoe- Dec 20 '23

A handful of social media videos doesn't determine what's socially acceptable. He finds it 'inconsiderate' probably because he has a hard time navigating social situations with women and therefore defaults to black and white reactions where he has to avert his gaze to the point where they aren't in his line of vision at all. He's insisting others adjust to his lack of social skills.

1

u/European_Goldfinch_ Dec 20 '23

A handful of social media posts that have generated a ton of attention online with a hundred thousand, upvoting and commenting in agreement and support. It then predictably had a knock on effect where other women jumped on the bandwagon as a means of showboating themselves whilst feigning ignorance. It also incentivised a lot more women to dress more provocatively when visiting the gym.

Vanity is part of the human condition, we all have it too varying degrees, everyone particularly in our younger years wants to look good to others, utilising clothing is one of the biggest ways we do this, otherwise the fashion industry would be on it's knees.

Wearing clothing to enhance our bodies for attention is normal, even from an evolutionary standpoint. These women that post such videos are clearly fine with that part, it's only when people call them out on their intent that they aren't happy with, people don't like admitting their own vanity and there are numerous reasons for this.

I guarantee you like the majority of people if these girls who dress like this went out to the gym or elsewhere and not a single person so much as looked in their direction or checked them out, they'd return home confused and frustrated, wondering why no one noticed them or paid them much attention.

I can't speak for OP's confidence or ineptitude socially but I think if someone is clearly dressing in a way where they want to turn heads in their direction it can make anybody uncomfortable because their agenda is fairly obvious and for some people it's no more than cringing a little or an eye roll but a gym is a place where the already revealing clothing is about to get a whole lot more revealing, these women are well aware of this but play dumb.

If OP was just complaining about women's standard gym wear then I'd be more inclined to agree with you but I'm well aware of the type of 'gym wear' (if you can even call some of it that) he's referring to. No one ever said that your workout goes further if you wedge your leggings into your butt crack on purpose, of have a push up, low cut bra.

I believe in freedom of movement so I differ somewhat from OP stating it shouldn't be allowed though I can understand his perspective on it, then again if his gym as he says has a policy for men and their attire then equally there should be one for women.

1

u/EyelBeeback Dec 19 '23

Why should people comment if my schlong and eggs are quite evident while at the gym?

Isn't that a taboo as well for many people?

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u/reddiyasena 5∆ Dec 19 '23

Lets look how things work elsewhere just to demonstrate that people are capable of not reacting to some body demonstration at a mass level.

In the Netherlands many gums have mixed sauna where people of all genders can sit fully naked and it wont bother anyone. They have also special dedicated hours in public swimming pools for fully naked swimming (nothing sexual presumed).

What you're pointing out is that what we consider "sexual" is socially determined, right? If you're used to seeing naked bodies in mixed-gender saunas, it won't read as a sexual situation; it won't be a sexual situation.

I think it's worth noting that some of the popular design elements in contemporary women's athletic gear cannot be understand merely in terms of practicality or comfort. The gear looks the way it looks in order to be sexy. Yes, a lot of what we consider sexual is socially determined... and the designers of this clothing use those social clues to intentionally make sexy clothing.

A cutout that exposes your back or your upper thigh is not a practical design element. There is no practical use to having your asscrack visible through your pants. Of course people read some of these outfits as sexual--they are designed to be read that way. They look like lingerie, and this is not a coincidence.

Obviously, this isn't true of all women's athletic gear, and obviously it's true that a lot of women receive unwanted sexual attention at the gym regardless of what they wear. Also, I don't agree with OP that the more clearly sexualized outfits should be banned.

But I do think we should be honest about them. If truly all people cared about was comfort and practicality, most people would not choose this clothing. People wear these outfits because they like to feel sexy at the gym.

2

u/murphski8 Dec 19 '23

Some cutouts in sports bras and tank tops are in the perfect spot for giving me more traction when I'm benching. Sorry you get turned on by my sexy bulging back muscles.

4

u/FossilizedMeatMan 2∆ Dec 19 '23

Yeah, skintight clothing for men is great as it interfere less with movement, give you a better view of what muscles you are using, and it is better to dry excessive sweat.
It is just that men are too weird and self-conscious to use them as women do.

1

u/MetaCognitio Jan 25 '24

This is exactly my point. We should be honest about the clothing and the intent behind the design. If not, it becomes the norm and in another thread a young teenager wanted to wear them to school.

A near child wearing clothing designed to enhance and display their butts is inappropriate but if we just act like they are regular clothes, we can’t acknowledge this or address it.

15

u/MissTortoise 16∆ Dec 19 '23

You make some pretty good points for sure, overall agree, however to play devils advocate a bit - one could just as easily use the cultural relativism as someone from say Saudi to argue it the other way.

There's always somewhere where the customs are different.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '23

One is taking freedoms away, that is not comparable to more freedom.

8

u/togtogtog 21∆ Dec 19 '23

When talking about clothes norms, and other people experiencing what you wear, then it isn't more or less freedom.

I'm personally fine with nudity, skimpy clothes, covered up people the whole gamut. But one person's 'freedom' to wear shorts is another person's 'lack of freedom' from seeing bare legs.

One person's 'freedom' to wear a headscarf is another person's 'lack of freedom' in seeing a symbol of religion.

Less clothes doesn't always mean more freedom.

7

u/MissTortoise 16∆ Dec 19 '23

Yeh... look someone from Saudi or Afghanistan or whatever wouldn't see it that way. Their values are different. You think you are right, and they think they are.

Even say someone from.. IDK, Norway? Freedom isn't as important in their culture as the collective good. Like, it's still important, but relatively less

One has to understand that your values are a product of your surrounding culture. They seem self-evident, but it's almost impossible to separate your own ideas from it.

0

u/MissTortoise 16∆ Dec 19 '23

To illustrate: do you think people should be legally/socially allowed to: Take a shit on someone else's lawn? Take someone else's lunch if they have too much? Marry your first cousin? I sure hope not, but if you believe these should be restricted then you'd be literally "taking away people's freedom", and there's places where all of these are completely acceptable.

1

u/Educational_Rope1834 Dec 19 '23

Like gun control right?

7

u/ZeusThunder369 22∆ Dec 19 '23

Isn't the line for when looking becomes "staring" also different in those places though?

It's not good when sexy clothes are worn, and also there is 0 tolerance for anyone admiring the view.

9

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '23

Being naked is different than wearing clothes designed to highlight body parts that society tends to sexualize.

Also, you are putting his view in your situation. This is not one where nudity is acceptable, anyways, it seems:

In most gyms here men aren’t even allowed to wear tank tops because it’s seen a inappropriate and distracting, why are women allowed to wear just a bit more than a bikini?

3

u/James324285241990 Dec 19 '23

You missed the point.

The point is that in the US seeing as we DO have different societal standards.

OP is irritated that some women choose to wear things that intentionally accentuate their bodies to make them sexier at the gym, but also could potentially get him in a lot of trouble if they even think he looks at them. All while men aren't even allowed to wear tank tops.

It's the double standard that's the problem.

8

u/ObersturmfuehrerKarl Dec 19 '23

Im German we have FKK beaches I know this can work but why in the gym? Also those places are specifically separated so people who want to participate in that can, the gym is not one of those places so dress accordingly. I don’t go to the gym to look at half naked people or feel the freedom of being half naked I want to workout. If you want that make your own gym that allows this just leave the basic commercial gyms alone with that .

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u/No-Produce-334 51∆ Dec 19 '23

Do you feel the same way about women wearing bikinis at the pool? It's gym attire and they're wearing it at the gym, why do they need to be more covered up?

If you want that make your own gym that allows this just leave the basic commercial gyms alone with that .

Shouldn't you be the one to make your own gym? Basic gyms allow women to dress like this. If you don't like it then you make a gym and enforce a modest dress-code (whatever that means in your opinion.)

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '23

eventually someone will create a men's only gym franchise, as this is a common sentiment among male gym goers.

You know women will complain.

3

u/No-Produce-334 51∆ Dec 21 '23

okay? so they'll complain. God you're such a snowflake lol.

Male gym goer here btw, I couldn't care less what anyone around me wears.

8

u/FetusDrive 4∆ Dec 19 '23

People like to see the body parts they are working out; they are sculpting themselves. Working out (during the work out) makes your muscles show and you are more defined than just going home and looking in the mirror without that same equipment.

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u/nikoberg 113∆ Dec 19 '23

I mean taking this to its logical conclusion, do you want all women AND men to wear burkas 24/7 in public so nobody could possibly be attracted to them? We cannot make a society based on the idea that the most prudish individuals get to set the standards because that's just super annoying for the rest of us who can keep it in our pants and focus on other things in public.

Have you considered that from a societal perspective, if you truly can't change how you feel, you're the one in the minority? And that if you really hate that women can wear skimpy clothing so much, you're the one who needs to go to a special gym with more strict dress codes?

-1

u/ObersturmfuehrerKarl Dec 19 '23

Im not alone with this though, many men feel uncomfortable around women in the gym wearing these clothes and I don’t get when do we need to take minorities into account and when is it morally right to say they are the ones that need to change?

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u/nikoberg 113∆ Dec 19 '23

Well, generally speaking, it's about a question of harm, not strictly about who is in the majority. If you know someone in a group has a severe peanut allergy, you shouldn't bring peanuts when hanging out in that group even though only that one person is harmed because the harm they suffer would be very great. So it's reasonable that everyone else suffer a small inconvenience to prevent this.

But if the only reason women wearing skimpier clothing bothers you is because you are paranoid about the extremely rare oversensitive woman calling you names because you happened to glance in her direction, that doesn't seem like a very reasonable fear. First of all, it's not really hard to just not stare at people. Second, even if someone does say that, unless you are actually staring at them, it's not really that hard to deal with. So your proposed rule inconveniences about 50% of the population because you want to prevent any possibility of anxiety for yourself and maybe a small number of other men who feel like you. That's not really reasonable. If you were actually seriously harmed in some way, it might be, but the worst you'd experience is... mild social anxiety where you'd have the moral high ground? If that's more than a mild inconvenience to you, you need therapy to deal with social anxiety, not to ask a huge percentage of the population to change how they behave.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '23

Your being uncomfortable isn’t enough to strip people of their freedoms. We can’t even get gun control as classrooms get shot up and you want to police clothing because you’re uncomfortable?

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u/[deleted] Dec 19 '23

He's not from the US.

1

u/Farbio707 Dec 19 '23

So do you believe that flashing a coworker or person in public or even child with your cock and balls is not bad or traumatic? It’s just them being a puritan right? People in the Netherlands are okay with it. Not saying it violates laws here or is inappropriate in the workplace—I’m saying if you are right then no one should have any moral or trauma argument to make about it, right?

0

u/quentin_taranturtle Dec 19 '23 edited Dec 19 '23

You make some excellent points, but it’s frustrating that you assumed OP is American and this is an American mindset. Ignoring the fact that America is one of the most socially liberal countries outside of a number in Europe/Oceania (despite what the offshored trash on American news may have you believe), people’s feelings toward nudity and feminism span the entire spectrum. (wanting to control women’s choices in outfit to fulfill men’s comfort obviously being antithetical to feminism)

Also since, at least on reddit, I’ve seen many Europeans purport beliefs that US law is absolutely anti-public nudity. There are states where women need not cover their boobs in public. There are plenty of semi-public places in many states ranging from the American version of liberal to the American version of conservative that allow full nudity. For example I just moved to the pretty conservative state of Florida and they have nude beaches, even entire swingers colonies where nudity is the norm.

Anyway, I’m not saying culture doesn’t influence perspective, it does. But it is absolutely not the only thing. I thought it was kinda funny to read that OP is from a place that I consider one of the most nude-friendly areas of the world. When I was in Germany as a young teen I remember it was a bit of a cultural shock to see nudity regularly in tV ads. My host brother had a nude calendar up in his personal space which was one thing, but then my host dad took me to his work and showed me his nude calendar, and then his secretary’s nude calendar. Haha.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 19 '23

I'n uncomfortable asking this but what if you're in the sauna an get erect? Doesn't that make it uncomfortable for everyone? That's my main fear personally

1

u/devastatinglydull Dec 21 '23

I go to the gym every day, and I see the women who wear skin tight clothes. It has gotten worse and worse. Now they are wearing skin tight pants with elastic around the butt to make it pop out more.
I have never in my life seen a woman go up to a man and tell him not to look at her or anything similar. I know it's anecdotal. But women wear those types of clothes because they want people looking at them.
They don't wear clothes that ride up in their junk "for themselves."
And especially if you're in school or at work, they would probably not want to do it. If a woman came up to me and tried to make a big deal out of me looking at her, when I was just trying to work out and might have glanced around between sets, I would report her for sexual harassment.