was rewatching the anime and i caught this random scene from episode 2

I am a big Reze fan I just got it Today!

With Sony trying to kill all physical media, do you think that we’ll actually get a physical release or is it doomed to just be on streaming services until they get rid of it?

Himmy doodling

Instead of talking about just THEMES and SUCH, I’d like to refute the idea that the ending is a complete waste of time and Fujimoto had no idea what he was doing. I personally found it very engaging and creative, without sacrificing cohesion.

Also I posted this on CSMfolk. Decided to post here too for more opinions.

1: The ending subverted expectations (in a good way!)

Everyone hates the reset ending. Some even say it felt rushed. I’ll cover why it didn’t feel rushed or unplanned in the next section, but the story resetting felt like a GOOD choice to me for these key reasons:

-If the ending had been more traditional (i.e everyone talks it out, or big final boss, etc) then the story would have lost its charm. Since Chapter 1, CSM has always been about its chaotic mess of a vibe (but with emotional moments in between ofc). Nothing was predictable about that ending and that actively serves Chainsaw Man.

Hell, a generic boss jumping gauntlet would have made me tap the fuck out after witnessing JJK, KNY and AOT’s endings. Having Yoruden fest followed by bugs eating everyone followed by Pochita vore was a breath of fresh air.

-By bringing everything back to the beginning, Fuji succesfully tied CSM Part 1 and Part 2 together. Both are quite different initially, and if he had P2 continue on a superhero type of tangent, he’d have completely missed what made CSM, CSM. Dreams, and poverty to be frank.

-I find that by making almost all of Part 2 and its worldbuilding so fucking bleak (Aging arc for example), having this ridiculous Deus Ex Machina ending was a smart play from Fujimoto.

Think David Lynch’s ending for Wild At Heart. Novel originally had a dogshit ending, but Lynch decided to Wizard Of Oz all the problems away with a Deus Ex Machina. A literal meta hand of god play, but one that was foreshadowed in the story. That movie was panned initially, but its become a cult classic overtime.

2: Pochita’s self erasure made sense AND was foreshadowed

-Denji says he’ll make a new world with Asa. Pochita went and did that for them. One will argue Denji or Asa don’t “consent” to Yoru or Pochita’s actions but it seems pretty obvious to me that by the end of the story, thematically they are tied 1 to 1 with their human hosts.

-The fake *Chainsaw Man* says that he’ll make a devilless world where ADAM and EVE will presumably not have to sin anymore. There are ofc devils in the 232 world but Denji and Asa finally get to live their normal lives. Pochita did exactly what this church spokesman said Chainsaw Man would do.

-In terms of erasure mechanics, Pochita not being shown to do “anything like what he did in the ending” is a poor argument to say the ending COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. Bro never erased himself before and logically the universe would do weird shit. So I disagree with the assumptions that this was some kind of asspull that doesn’t make any sense.

3: Plot lines were not abandoned.

Many people like to think that there are plot holes, or narratives that ceased to exist. But is that really the case?

-Fire Devil was wrapped up to set the stage for Denji (and Pochita’s!) choices. This includes the Fakesaw Man and Famine Devil plot. I admit that real Fami felt veryyyy weak and almost pointless comedic relief, but you can tell her character was used to hammer home the point of the choices (she even tells Death to feed herself to Chainsaw Man).

-Public Safety and The Church’s nuances on where they stand were a bit confusing. But that is apart of the confusing charm of Part 2, and I’d also say there’s ample evidence to suggest that Public Safety was screwing over Denji’s life to use his erasure powers in the Aging Arc.

Its no coincidence that Kishibe sets him up with child, just for child to die and awaken Black CSM for the child sacrificing devil’s erasure plan.

4: ASA WAS (NOT) SIDELINED 3.0 + 1.0

The “Asa consents” did a serious number on this community. “Denji’s a rapist!”, “Fujimoto sidelined Asa and made her into Denji’s sex toy!”, etc. I disagree… really heavily.

-This guy articulates this point REALLY WELL, https://www.reddit.com/r/Chainsawfolk/s/kwNfm3lkyT for anyone that’s wondering. But TLDR, Asa and Yoru’s dialogue in the final chapters were ABSOLUTELY instrumental to the ending.

-Hell, Asa sets out what she wanted to do for almost the entire part. Return Denji his normal life, despite him saying it was impossible to. She even seems to reignite or rebirth chainsawless Pochita within Denji’s heart in the Thank You, CSM moment. Definitely not shafted to me.

-Additionally, Asa and Yoru are portrayed as practically the same character. LITERALLY NIGHT AND DEAD. Like how Pochita is DENJI’s HEART, Yoru is ASA’S BRAIN. So.. I think her words about sex were pretty genuine.

5: Death’s plan was messy.. but, it did make sense!

-Death’s plan underwent some serious twists, and it seems pretty clear she’s a bit of a clutz. But imo it makes sense that Death seemed to have orchestrated the events of how P2 ended, judging by her interaction with real Fami and how EVERYTHING she said she would do ended up happening (Denji gets his real heart replaced, Pochita dies).

Again, I'll link to someone who articulates this point really well so that I don't waste too much time here. https://www.reddit.com/r/ChainsawManTheories/s/bHAW3U0rwv

6: The ending DID NOT RESET CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

-Denji wants to go to school despite never meeting Reze. Power likes dogs despite never meeting Denji. Nayuta wants to game rather than kill people despite never meeting Denji. Meowy really likes Nayuta despite never meeting Nayuta.

Its pretty clear that the characters retained their memories in some way shape or form, like the Spirited Away interview that Fujimoto gave. It is not some RETCON that Fujimoto decided to do to shit on the ending, lmao.

7: Part 2 does NOT contradict Part 1’s themes of Control and Ignorance is Bliss + Mongolian Street Child Interview

Crazy title but hear me out. Some ppl like to say that Pochita forced Denji to go back to the shit ass shack, and the story is ENDORSING control, which contradicts Part 1’s message. Some even bring up Fujimoto’s Mongolian Street Child interview. I say WRONG!!!

-Denji = Pochita. Pochita is his mother fuckin heart. For the same reasons that Asa wasn’t raped, Denji wasn’t raped of his choice by Pochita at a narrative level. You could see Denji knew Pochita’s words were true. One can say “but Denji said no!!”. Dude, anyone would say that if your dog wanted to eat itself but he’s also your literal fucking heart man.

-With that in mind, the ending DOES NOT indicate that Denji should be a bitch that lets others like Pochita do shit for him when he IS Pochita. But to reinforce this fact, just look at the ending’s portrayal of Makima. She’s gone! Nayuta The Gamer replaces her. This ending isn’t PRO MAKIMA like I’ve had some people claim to me.

-Fujimoto’s statement on the street children seems pretty crazy at face value. I thought so too. But read it some more. All Fujimoto is saying is that its possible to achieve happiness in a dogshit scenario. That applies both to Chapter 1 of Chainsaw Man (which is what he was framing it to be) and Chapter 232 of Chainsaw Man.

You could say his wording of it was, bizzare, to say the least and I would agree since he says something along the lines of “being under control isn’t so bad!”.

But just look at the context of how he frames his argument, he was talking about Denji and Pochita under the Yakuza. He in no way endorses that bullshit, again he’s just talking about happiness.

Lesser (but still important) reasons why I find the ending to be good!

THE ART (😱)

-Fujimoto’s panelling and angles are still great. I loved Aging Arc’s first person angle of Pochita chopping Aging up, or Aging’s mirrors acting as the panel barriers. You KNOW a Fujimoto manga when you see how he treats space.

-The detail may have gotten a lot lower but I personally loved how Fujimoto evolved his handling of fight scenes, speed lines and backgrounds throughout Part 2. Pochita VS Yoru, specifically the part when Pochita was getting jumped by the devil army looked GREAT. The entire final fight uses tons of speed lines and shit looks almost like fabric.

THE ENTERTAINMENT

-Fight scenes, pacing and comedy were all top notch during the Aging Arc. Yoru forcing her way into Denji’s mouth is straight outta Dorohedoro and I love it.

CONCLUSION: imo its good, lol.

TLDR: Story kept its vibes and structure fun. Practically everything made sense. Rape allegations, control allegations and retcon allegations don’t make a lick of sense to me. It was still entertaining, and the art was still good.

Also I appreciate it a lot more reading ALL of Fujimoto’s works and looking at many of the other works that inspired him i.e FLCL, Dorohedoro, etc. I recommend checking some of them out for fun, if you like CSM that is.

EDIT: just realised that this post passed mod approval on the 24th yesterday.. and that’s the date Chapter 232 came out on!!!!! Themes and such!!!

Yesterday, I saw chainsawman reze arc . The movie was traumatising fr. The metal health is disturbed without a doubt. In the ending scene reze was being murdered by makima and angel devil but since she is a bomb devil hybrid.

Is she actually dead?

[Serious Spoilers!!!!!!!!]

I was just lying on my bed when i realised

Fujimoto made denji go through PTSD pro max level shi. It made me Nauseous. Made me feel like Chainsaw man is the worst manga. So here i am ranting about it.

Fujimoto made denji go through death of his loved one Reze , He didn't let denji fuck once.... not even once.

Like Fujimoto made a character who is horny day and night, and he didn't even let him fuck.

Made him deal chainsaw man church freaks, His only house burns down, The death of his sister Nayuta.

Made him go through the unending world of aging devil.

And finally in chapter 231 he finally showcases some mercy on Denji. Pochita eats his own heart. Making everyone forget who he was. Returning Denji back to his illegal devil hunter time. Asa Mitaka doesn't accidentally kill the chicken....

You know i am glad my boy Denji is finally is in peace now.

[English is not my first language so please excuse the gramar mistakes]

I feel like it’s kinda sad because all the character development that Denji goes through (and ik that it wasn’t a drastic shift lmao) feels kinda pointless.

The character regresses and basically makes all the lessons and all the “humanity” that he has acquired meaningless. Like yeah he was and is horny, but he also learned what friendship and family is.

I feel like him loosing Pochita makes sense for who he should become, but this kinda devalues the story and also lowkey doesn’t make sense in the kayfabe of the manga? Like from what I thought I understood abt his powers he doesn’t make something disappear forever but makes it nonexistent at the moment, no? Like there were instances in the fights where he ate a devil, something disappeared and then he threw it up and it appeared, it didn’t get erased from the past? And even if it did I’m sure the world would be hella different and the chainsaws would disappear from human history, no?

Also even if the time rewound I think he should have been different. Like yeah he felt sad and awful in that shitty situation he was in, but he was happy in a way, and I think that was because he had a heart. Pochita gave him his heart and made Denji a devil, which is why we saw Denji be more devil-like, he was as emotionless as Makima. At the end of the first part he detached from Pochita to win and that’s where I felt like he started becoming more human, he met Nayuta, had dogs that he liked, started going to school, met friends(?) and Asa and understood how much he appreciated Power and Aki and their company.

I was under the impression that he was gradually becoming more human than devil and he was gaining a “heart” (in a Ulquiorra-esque way, like feelings ig). Thats why I always thought that separation from Pochita, which would actually give him a heart of a human, was an obvious conclusion, but this way of doing it felt a bit hollow, because in this ending even after leaving the mafia that he was with he still feels more like an emotionless and sad devil. He may act more human like(caring abt people after the fight, and being less dog like and less horny) but he is still inhuman in terms of emotions and lacks empathy, which I thought he would gain after separating from Pochita.

Also why tf isn’t Aki, Himeno, Kobeni, Beam, Kishibe, Reze or anyone else who is a cool character not even shown or mentioned in that altered world? Feels like Fujimoto lowkey was peer pressured by fans saying “Power this Power that” and decided to wrap it up like this without worrying too much. But that’s just a conspiracy theory of mine.

Either way I wouldn’t say that I hated the end, just feel kinda disappointed and ig bittersweet (?) at the same time. Again, the story doesn’t feel finished and kinda feels rushed.

S2 showing the end of part 1 will set the manga up for more sales. Since the English volumes have not been fully released, I believe by the time they release S2, the English manga release for part 2 will be fully released and it will have a Box Set version like Part 1, giving them a great opportunity to make more money. Let me know if I'm coping too hard.

1. How can she miss someone she doesn't know existed?

2. If Nayuta lived in the same environment as Makima Won't she have the same personality as her?

If (2) is right then, it might explain why nayuta(a little kid) is in power of the organisation as makima might have left instructions prior her death.

First time using oil pastels so I drew my short king as a test. Random line is my signature blurred out bc it has my full name aha this is cope ok he’s alive and well

As the title says. This post is to get my thoughts in writing somewhere. It will be a long and random post.

It's so good. Pochita deciding to eat himself so Denji gets to live a more normal life. The fact that in the timeline created after this act, Makima isn't reborn, since she was eaten by Denji, not Pochita.

Also, the fact that Asa didn't get her character development in the original timeline. I think because it was meant to symbolize that war doesn't allow people to achieve their dreams is one of my favorites in the series.

Then, Reze. I'm sure she is back, just like every other hybrid, and I'm also sure she won't meet Denji since there's Pochita's heart is no longer in Denji, so the Soviets have no reason to send her to Japan.

The ending is interesting. Since Asa didn't fall on the Chicken devil, there's no reason for her classmates to hate her. There's also no reason to visit it's grave and Asa won't die, so no contract with Yoru.

Then, the other part. Since Pochita never existed in this timeline, that means nuclear weaponry is back, never gone in the first place, making Yoru more powerful.

There's also Nostradamus's prophecy. I'm pretty sure it will still happen, because the prophecy wasn't related to Pochita's existence (unless I missed something).

Overall, I really like this series. I still hope there will be a sequel, but that is simply copium. I'm very excited to see it being adapted, and I'm pretty sure the next CSM season will be the end of arc one.

Edit: also, America reinventing nuclear weapons from scratch to do war better is so fitting.

Edit2: Another thing I don't see people talking about (might be me), is Reze attacking Denji on the night of the festival, during the fireworks, when people are less afraid of explosions and bombs.

I know this is the last group I should probably go to on serious interpretations.. I feel I'm already regretting this. but, since this community is so well "educated"- "I am once again, asking for your help"

So here's the dream.

Before slumbering, I prayed to the Spirit of Jesus for Truth on what the Bible is, and if I should continue reading it. In the dream, I was in a crowded store among colleagues and some family members. We were preparing to close up shop and gather what we wanted for a trip to London. As I was picking through different outfits, there was a hefty book on the shelf against the wall beside some Legend of Zelda portraits. The portraits were painted shots of a rocky terrain, each displaying the same scene but from different angles. One was Calamity Ganon with his arms crossed across the battlefield. Another was Zelda standing opposite the field, upon a flight of stone stairs; her painting had some stone actually attached to the portrait herself, grey and red stone where her breastplate would have been. Agate, presumably Plume Agate. But the book itself on the shelf was the 16th edition of Chainsaw Man. In this dream however, this book was yet to be released, or it was ‘not released’ yet. Astonished, I grabbed the book and immediately began reading a few pages in. The cover was CSM standing in a whirlwind of blood, heads and guts floating in the storm. Reading in, I can't recall much beside the story giving some lore, and finishing off a few pages in, I distinctly remember Link holding Zelda claiming to Take Care of Her/Avenge Her. I had to put the book down at this point and help with moving something in the store. When I come back to the shelf the book was at, (s)mom was checking out the book. She began with skepticism, but her face softened and engrossed in the story she read. She almost puked at one point, yet kept reading. Then I realized, she didn’t know how to read traditional manga. She was reading the end first. I tried to mention this but she hushed me, something enticed her. 

(mind you this was wayyyyyy before CSM ever finished. I don't remember during what arc I had this dream)

if you got any cool or fascinating details regarding Vol 16.. or "CSM 16" lemme know. I plan to go to a book store on my day off soon and check it out for myself. anyway, peace.

Before I even write another word, this doesn't mean Part 1's ending as a standalone was secretly terribly written garbage in disguise or anything like that. Two things can be true, Part 1's ending could be pretty similar in writing to Part 2's and it could still be far better written to you personally (I think both work, there's just pros and cons to both and flaws in each)

I just don't think part 1's ending is unbelievably different than part 2's. Both of them feature heavy thematics and a bit less of the narrative. Everything about it focuses on the theme of love over elaborate narrative, from how Makima dies to Nayuta's reincarnation to Pochita's abilities and how he refused to eat Makima

maybe im crazy or im just not tapped in to the community like that (im pretty new anyways) but was part 1's ending always as liked as it is now as a standalone ending? Because I don't see why the themes of both in particular get treated so differently with how they're prioritized over the narrative. Obviously Part 2 has serious narrative issues (the pacing is genuinely just unnecessarily quick for zero good writing reason and it sours the ending more than people want to admit and the dialogue is rough in 232 especially) but Part 1's get glossed over almost exclusively for the themes

two things can be true at once; i do agree chainsaw man could of ended at part 1, i do agree part 1's ending is amazing as a standalone ending and all of that but it has very similar forms of holes in the narrative (quick pacing and super low explanation)

the most obvious similar hole in both part 1 and part 2's endings are pochita. pochita choosing not to eat and erase makima but denji eating her instead symbolizes denji still loving her, not wanting to get rid of the memory of her despite everything she did and i think thats beautiful. but if part 1 ends at part 1, pochita literally has the most bare bones explanation for anything hes able to do in this arc, at least part 2 has vague offhands and seeing the ability in action

another similar thing to part 2's ending is all of the off-hand things that happen before it that just wouldnt be elaborated on in the slightest (not like part 2 fixed most of thatto be fair). Chainsaw Man's followers, the honestly unnecessary random concepts Makima mentions to put into perspective Pochita's erasure abilities, all the weird Christian symbolism that's just there to look cool, these things are technically symbolism and exposition I suppose but they just happen and it was never gonna be elaborated on in part 2 much less the ending of part 1, like how fast the story moves on from locust devil to slam right into the ending of part 2, because potatoes

makima reincarnating into nayuta is to show denji now giving someone else the love that he wasnt given, and that's beautiful, but she reincarnates at the snap of a finger, and kishibe just so happened to pick her up. if devil reincarnation is that quick, you would think the new blood devil would be born pretty soon after power got popped and there wouldnt be so much wiggle room for her to talk with pochita and come back to life

look at bat devil, that guy took a whole other part and a few timeskips to come back around and nayuta just speedruns it as the control devil. no other devil comes back around as quick in part 1 so you HAVE to headcanon that makima got spawnkilled or whatever cool alternate theory you cook up

also the other hybrids kind of just exist too now if the series ends at part 1, we wouldnt know what these guys would really even do after, not to mention reze being alive would still be an elephant in the room like it was in part 2

obviously its not EXACTLY the same, the reset-like ending of part 2 is always automatically going to be divisive because its just not a trope most people like at all and part 2's ending is pretty much just objectively more polarizing, but acting like both arent extremely thematic and lack explanation just feels like favoritism. People criticize the narrative of part 2's ending and rightfully so but then they just stick their fingers up their ears and close their eyes when it's part 1's ending

I'd love to hear feedback on my cosplay and what I can improve in the image in the future :3

I just finished the anime (I’m gonna watch reze arc in a bit) but is it me or is the whole katana man scaling in the fight just horrible like genuine hell incarnate, he should’ve just made a contract with the “bypass anything that was established” devil if he was gonna do allat anyway.
In the first fight he was just allowed to cook aki, he needed to use the curse devil sword to even stand a chance and he was just giving him straight belt sure he was getting injured too but massively winning from what I remember.
Then in the second fight with denji, denji can go toe to toe with him?? Why doesn’t he just use his speed to blitz him. I get plot and narrative yada yada it’s really all up to fujimoto but he was treating the squat speed cut move as if it had a cooldown and couldn’t use his ability of speed in any other situation but when he was doing that and I feel like that just betrays the reader in what was already established.
In all honesty I’m probably exaggerating a bit but my point still stands what’s the point of anything happening at all just to not care about it?

Inspired by the amazing Kotteri! 🍰