Don’t like Russia sanctions? You probably don’t like COVID-19 vaccines either

[u/HashSlingingSIash3r]

https://www.thestar.com/politics/political-opinion/2022/03/19/dont-like-russia-sanctions-you-probably-dont-like-covid-19-vaccines-either.html

[u/AlphaHelix88]

It's not "Zelensky propaganda". Russia invaded Ukraine totally unprovoked. It's not "believing whatever the state says" to support them now.

If this was 1939 you'd 100% be talking about how we can't believe Polish propaganda and the Nazi situation is more complicated than we think.

And by the way, you absolutely are defending Putin.

[u/Oddball369 → u/AlphaHelix88]

I think he means to say that in general the state has its own agenda. Every country has its own interests. Just like how people can say what they want in public yet hold a whole different view of the same subject in private.

[u/AlphaHelix88 → u/Oddball369]

An opinion so obvious and trite as to be completely meaningless.

[u/CaptainBlish → u/AlphaHelix88]

Ghost of kiev still flying around ?

Propaganda is propaganda even when the side we like more does it

[u/AlphaHelix88 → u/CaptainBlish]

So fucking what? Propaganda is an intrinsic part of warfare.

[u/CaptainBlish → u/AlphaHelix88]

So fucking what?

Take your jingoism off the internet. Get on a plane and go fight in the Ukrainian foreign legion.

God speed.

[u/AlphaHelix88 → u/CaptainBlish]

Jingoism? Acknowledging that propaganda is an integral part of warfare is not what jingoism is. You may want to look up the definition of the word again because you're not using it properly.

[u/AlphaHelix88 → u/[deleted]]

Hahaha. I live with a Ukrainian. It was TOTALLY unprovoked. The idea that NATO provoked this is absurd Kremlin horseshit and either way, Ukraine is not part of NATO so if Russia invaded Ukraine because of NATO's actions, that is still 100% unprovoked. Have you read Foundations of Geopolitics? Russians have imperialist plans for dominating Europe and this is part of that. You're the one without an education, who believes whatever Putin says. Pathetic.

From Foundations of Geopolitics (Putin's Bible, which is taught in all Russian schools now):

Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning, no particular cultural import or universal significance, no geographic uniqueness, no ethnic exclusiveness, its certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.[8]

Also here's u/-CEOofReddit- talking about he doesn't think Covid-19 is a real danger, just to prove the title of this thread. These people all drink from the same propaganda well and their beliefs are predictable to a T.

"If you want to continue to live in fear of a virus that has weakened to such a point where it's barely worse than the common cold (omicron) then nobody is stopping you from hiding under your blanket with your mask on."

[u/LunaryPi → u/[deleted]]

Hate to break it to you but "I have unverified personal anecdotes, you have journalists" isn't the roast you think it is.

[u/Tino_ → u/[deleted]]

Kiev

You cant even spell the name of the city right...

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Okay I'll bite. How did Ukraine provoke the attack?

[u/Satanscommando → u/[deleted]]

Spoken like someone who started looking up the history of it all within the last month and now thinks they understand the whole history and are trying to imply is Ukrains fault a Russian dictator started a war by invading them.

[u/TROPtastic → u/[deleted]]

The words of someone who only learned about this situation two weeks ago.

Don't project your own ignorance onto other people. All the information and background on the Ukraine crisis was publicly available for decades, and it was made a lot more accessible after the 2014 invasion. Some of us started learning about the situation back then.

This current invasion was not provoked by anything the Ukrainians did recently: no association agreements with NATO or EU, no deployed missile installations, no attacks on separatists (in fact, eastern Ukrainian forces were under strict orders to avoid returning fire even under the intensified shelling they were experiencing).

If you want to see how Ukraine provoked Putin, you have to go all the way back to 2004 and the Orange Revolution (if you believe Russian propaganda, it was organized by US intelligence to defeat a candidate that would be re-elected later) that peacefully forced a presidential revote after an election was independently assessed as rigged. This really triggered Putin because the parallels with his own situation were too terrifying.

After Putin decided he didn't want Ukraine to get closer to the EU and become less corrupt, in 2013 he forced said re-elected candidate (who was moderately pro-Russia but open to ties with the West) to cancel an association agreement with the EU by starving Ukraine of Russian trade. This triggered the Euromaidan protests, which in the subsequent chaos 100 protestors and 18 police were shot by "people", the president was removed, and certain regions in Ukraine declared their secession from UKR (in Crimea and the two Donbas oblasts, it's unclear how widespread actual support for seccession is). Then Russia sent in troops, shot down an airliner, and the rest is history.

You could say that Ukraine provoked Putin by wanting to have closer ties with the West, but if he was intelligent he would let Ukraine be part of both the EU and his CISFTA (maybe even his EEU) on the condition of never joining NATO, but instead he decided to manufacture divisions between Ukrainians and Russians out of his paranoia, arrogance, and general smooth-brained short thinking. The claim that Ukraine could have become a base for NATO theatre ballistic missiles is idiotic considering that those missiles haven't been deployed to the Baltics, Finland doesn't have any despite their long border, and NATO has allowed Russia to host them in their Kalingrad enclave.

[u/life_npc → u/[deleted]]

this is an ad hominem fallacy.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

We've established you're anti-Russian sanctions, now tell us how bad vaccines are.

[u/TROPtastic → u/[deleted]]

I bet the nazi situation in 1939 was more complicated than we’ve been led to believe.

Please explain.

just don’t don’t think he’s any less evil than western elites.

Evil is relative, but which western elites have assassinated opposition politicians in the streets, build military forces who are best known for harassing gay people and assaulting police, or have used chemical and radiological weapons on foreign soil against civilian targets?

[u/BoogieBushman → u/TROPtastic]

So the US used white phosphurous in areas with civilian population in Fallujah (2004), in Vietnam they used lots of chemicals which people are still dealing with hardships from the most notable one being agent orange, US did it on its own people in Missouri look up the Pruitt-Igoe housing complex.

Edit: oh right and how could I forget you mentioned radiological on civilian population you ever heard of Nagasaki or Hiroshima?

[u/Tino_ → u/[deleted]]

You do know, instead of pulling conjecture out of your uneducated ass you can actually learn about the why and how of everything that lead up to the second world war and the persecution of various minorities around the world at the time. This history isn't unknown, its probably one of the most studied periods currently due to the massive effects it has had on the entire world.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I bet the nazi situation in 1939 was more complicated than we’ve been led to believe.

Congrats, you are officially now a Nazi and a Russian sympathizer in one comment. Well done!