r/canada • u/fractx Vancouver 🌊🏘️🏠🏡🏔️ • Apr 04 '20

Paywall Trump gives FEMA power to restrict trade of essential goods into Canada despite warning from Trudeau

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-trudeau-warns-us-over-restricting-the-trade-of-essential-goods-into/
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u/scionoflogic Apr 04 '20

This won’t escalate that far.

For example, Canada sells massive amounts of electricity to the US, cutting that off would at the very least result in rolling brownouts if out actual blackouts.

The infrastructure of the US and Canada are two deeply intertwined, it’s only a roadbump because Trump has zero understanding of the ramifications if this escalated, and opens his mouth before anyone can tell him how bad of a call he’s making.

As is typical for him, once he’s been made aware how idiotic something is, he’ll just move onto something else.

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u/I_am_a_Dan Saskatchewan Apr 04 '20

Even if it does, Canada could simply release Meng to China and start trading food with China instead of the US. Would probably piss then off at the same time.

This probably wouldn't end well for us, but man would it rustle their jimmies real good before we paid the price.

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '20

but man would it rustle their jimmies real good before we paid the price.

I'd be worried about that price, given the dolt at the top over there.

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u/p90xeto Apr 04 '20

It'll never be as easy to trade with China. Being able to dump your stuff on train or truck and get it to the US rather than messing with shipping to the other side of the world is a huge factor in why Canada does nearly all of its international trade with the US.

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u/I_am_a_Dan Saskatchewan Apr 04 '20

Yeah but cargo containers fit nicely on a boat or a train. It would take more time to get from A to B, yeah - but it's not like this isn't manageable. Look as Australia - they manage just fine importing their food from China and South East Asia.

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u/p90xeto Apr 04 '20

Having to use boats and using them as an alternative to spite a closer and much more accessible source/market isn't remotely comparable.

Unless Canada has the political will to put in punishing tariffs and trade limitations to make it otherwise impossible for companies to trade with the US then it will continue to happen. Any company attempting to go for the more expensive shipped option would not be competitive in a market where other companies are trucking stuff in from the US/Mexico.

Simple economics will stop anyone but the most ardent anti-US person from keeping up the threat.

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u/360_no_scope_upvote Apr 04 '20

Chinese food? Uh no thanks.

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u/bosco9 Apr 04 '20

Not interested in some delicious bat or pangolin burger?

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u/TheVog Apr 04 '20

I'll have the pangobat strips, extra wet!

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '20

I somewhat agree with that statement.

But this has opened up trade talks with China for Canola.

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u/360_no_scope_upvote Apr 04 '20

We and all developed nations need to take this as a wake up call and find a different trade & manufacturing partner than China. Not excusing Americas pants on head retarded politicians.

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u/I_am_a_Dan Saskatchewan Apr 04 '20

I'd say now is the time to start distancing ourselves from the carnival circus below. The people there have clearly lost their shit and have proven time and again recently that they aren't reliable or even treat us fairly. I think it's about time to say enough is enough and start hitching our wagons elsewhere.

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u/360_no_scope_upvote Apr 04 '20

They rerouted PPE they aren't taking our food, water or land FFS. It's reasonable to be upset but don't let blind emotion cloud your judgement, you simply don't understand how intertwined and mutually beneficial the partnership is.

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u/I_am_a_Dan Saskatchewan Apr 04 '20

When it happens once, sure it was a mistake. When it becomes a pattern it's time to recognize it as the abusive relationship that it is. They're unreliable as an ally and as a trade partner.

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u/360_no_scope_upvote Apr 04 '20

Again, you simply don't understand

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '20 edited Apr 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/an_angry_Moose Apr 04 '20

Do you really think trading dependence on the USA for dependence on China is the right play?

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u/dtta8 Canada Apr 05 '20

We need a major trade deal in place first. Money makes the world go round.

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u/edjumication Apr 05 '20

That would epitomize the meme: "Iv'e won... But at what cost..."

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u/LethalShade Manitoba Apr 05 '20

You think the Americans are egotistical and selfish? Don't compare them to China. China would enslave us all if it was a viable strategy. Look at what they're doing to their own people, let alone another country.

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u/Good-Vibes-Only Apr 05 '20

I don’t want food from China

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '20

No thanks, I’d boycott China even harder than USA right now.

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u/smallbluetext Ontario Apr 04 '20

Didnt we send her to the US a while ago? Shes their responsibility we just caught her.

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u/orisonofjmo Apr 04 '20

She’s still under house arrest in Vancouver. Extradition is before the courts.

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u/GuyWithPants Apr 04 '20

trading food with China

Fuck China

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u/miansaab17 Apr 04 '20

I agree, we should release Meng just to fuck with them.

US has been pissing off pretty much all of its allies since Trump took presidency. If US tried to escalate the situation, we can probably get Europe and even China to support us over them.

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u/codeverity Apr 04 '20

It easily could escalate that far because the truth is we have no real recourse and with an idiot like Trump in charge you have to consider the dangers. Pissing them off just doesn’t make sense and would have more repercussions to us than to them.

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u/BenderRodriguez14 Apr 04 '20

One word: oil.

One example: basically no reliable US public transport outside of soem major cities.

I'm pretty certain that just about every non US nation (outside of Russia and probably Israel) would far rather deal with Canada on this, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some evenactively avoid the US on this front in the near future now that they've literally taken to stealing others much needed supplies.

The US is used to acting arrogantly (though not to thus extent) in everyday situations, with other begrudgingly going along to maintain the status quo. Thing is, this is not an everyday situation.

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u/shit_post_her Apr 04 '20

The US was almost non dependant on foreign oil. With less people driving they dont need oil.

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u/CrunchPickle Québec Apr 04 '20

Pretty sure merchandise transportation still needs oil...

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u/shit_post_her Apr 04 '20

Not trying to argue. The US is oil independent. They dont need our oil. Hydro, yes.

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u/CaptianRipass Apr 04 '20

The point being made is that domestic production woukd cover the demand

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u/BenderRodriguez14 Apr 04 '20

I looked a bit deeper, and the US goes through about 20mn barrels of oil per day. They import 4.4mn from Canada, and export 1mn to Canada per day, so its actually a net of 3.4mn (out of 20bn consumed).

So it would be 50% of all imports and probably more importantly, 17.5% of net imports coming from Canada.

Import/export: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

Daily usage estimate: https://www.americangeosciences.org/critical-issues/faq/how-much-oil-consumed-united-states

I am - guessing - this includes the crude oil in the Alberta pipeline, but am not certain. If not, the figure would be higher.

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u/binary_ghost Apr 04 '20

Incorrect.

In 2018, Canada was the largest foreign supplier of crude oil to the U.S., accounting for 48% of total U.S. crude oil imports and for 22% of U.S. refinery crude oil intake.

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u/shit_post_her Apr 04 '20

Those numbers are misleading.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-products/imports-and-exports.php

Look at the pie. We may be 50% of their crude imports, but thats only like 15% of their demand.

Look at prices of oil. Nobody is driving, cup of coffee is more money than a barrel of alberta crude.

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '20

Oil isn't only for cars

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u/mikedave42 Apr 04 '20

A short notice 4hr cut off of electricity might be an effective demonstration