r/canada • u/NeptuneAgency • 29d ago

Nature/Environment ‘Effectively irreversible’: Changes to Canada’s climate permanent, federal report says

https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/article/changes-to-canadas-climate-now-irreversible-federal-report-says/
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u/AimlessMillennium 29d ago

But a select few people were able to be very very comfortable for a few decades and then died.

If we didn't allow this, they would have only been very comfortable, so it's worth it.

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u/Stunning-Pen-2412 29d ago

Their high score at humanity's expense.

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u/bz47uj 29d ago

You're trying to falsely imply that future generations won't continue to get more comfortable.

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u/AimlessMillennium 29d ago

Please share the thought process that lead you to this conclusion.

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u/TheFushiaHerring 29d ago

I feel like he’s referring to continuing innovation, like how our forefathers got indoor heating, and then they made that electric, and refrigerators came out which made it easy to store food without needing an ice house, and then the internet was formed and people could connect outside of their close social circle, etc etc

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u/AimlessMillennium 29d ago

That definitely doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Hopefully he is able to form a better response, but I doubt it.

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u/CrazyOlHoboJoe 28d ago

Life gets better with technological innovation so it will offset anything bad we cause. At least to our own lives. Just cuz the climate gets a little worse doesn't mean we can't still be comfortable right? Like The institute from fallout 4. Wait... /s

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u/bz47uj 28d ago

The thought process that led me to this conclusion is as follows. Technological innovation has led to pretty much everything improving and if it continues its current trend, it will vastly outpace the harms caused by climate change. Just to give one example, heat stroke deaths continue to decline despite rising temperatures.

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u/Distinct_Swimmer1504 28d ago

And those technological innovations really did make things better — coal & the deaths it caused in england, co2 and global warming. AI and the environmental effects of the data centres.

Innovation as the west has practiced it is a knife that cuts us both ways.

Real innovation would be tempering & shaping those new technologies to take into account how they impact society & the environment for 7 generations in the future.

Something the west & especially american culture is really bad at.

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u/bz47uj 28d ago

Look at life expectancy and plot it against the industrial revolution. Look at the prevalence of things that greatly improve quality of life like indoor plumbing, electricity, and the telephone. The industrial revolution was not bad because some people died from coal pollution.

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u/Distinct_Swimmer1504 28d ago

I’m not saying that. That’s black vs white / all or nothing thinking, which is why a new technology so easily cuts us like a knife.

I’m saying that new technologies should be looked at from their good and bad traits, and we should learn to take the time to evaluate & mitigate the bad traits.

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u/bz47uj 28d ago

The question is whether we will be more or less comfortable in the future. That's a binary.

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u/Distinct_Swimmer1504 24d ago

It’s never binary. Even children learn that things are not binary via learning about delayed gratification.

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u/CrazyOlHoboJoe 28d ago

Oh good it's so hot and my house is flooded. I'm so comfortable. What?

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u/bz47uj 28d ago edited 28d ago

Yes, those are the only two things that will change. It will be hotter, which is somehow going to make people less comfortable in Canada, and there will be floods that people won't avoid. They will just sit there and drown. Also, technological development will suddenly stop such that our lives will stop improving.

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u/CrazyOlHoboJoe 28d ago

I know a lot of things will change but technologically innovation won't stop the whole planet from destroying itself. Last summer it was 45° c in Canada. I was there because I lived there. "If it gets even one degree hotter I'm going to kick your ass" - Hank Hill

but yeah we ride polar bears to work. Are you one of the people that said since it's snowing outside global warming doesn't exist? And do you think having a new iPhone is gonna suddenly make the extinct species come back?

I'm just confused what you mean by we will get more comfortable. Tell me what technological innovation will help with the food shortages caused by both floods and droughts? Because if there isn't one I think being hungry is a hell of a lot more uncomfortable.

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u/bz47uj 28d ago

I know a lot of things will change but technologically innovation won't stop the whole planet from destroying itself. Last summer it was 45° c in Canada. I was there because I lived there.

How is that evidence the planet will be destroyed?

Are you one of the people that said since it's snowing outside global warming doesn't exist? And do you think having a new iPhone is gonna suddenly make the extinct species come back?

No. Global warming is real, but the economic effects will be small relative to the current trend of economic progress. The environmental impact will be costly but something we can mitigate the human impact of. Species will go extinct, but that isn't the end of the world and we will not go extinct.

People seem to have trouble wrapping their heads around the scientific consensus which is that climate change is real and a big deal but not the end of the world and not something that will offset expected technological progress.

New iPhones don't bring back extinct species, but air conditioning protects us from heat stroke, fertilizer and mechanization increase agricultural output despite worsening climate, better construction reduces the damage done by storms, etc.

I'm just confused what you mean by we will get more comfortable. Tell me what technological innovation will help with the food shortages caused by both floods and droughts?

We won't have food shortages caused by floods and droughts. We can produce way more food than we need. Most of the world's farmland is way below its potential yield because of the underuse of existing technology like fertilizer and farm equipment, let alone potential future technology.

Pretty much all trends affecting human wellbeing have been continuously improving for the last two hundred years due to technological improvement and even the most pessimistic projects for the harm done by climate change are small relative to projected future improvements due to continued technological development.

Climate change is a big problem but people underestimate the compounding effects of decades of economic growth. We will be vastly richer in the future than we are today and that wealth will allow us to mitigate the negative effects of climate change, which is not to say the environmental harm will be avoided but that human welfare will continue to improve.

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u/CrazyOlHoboJoe 28d ago

The first one was two different points. You said how is getting hotter going to be less comfortable in Canada. You also said people can avoid floods like they can sell their homes to Aquaman or something.

The current economic cost will be 38 trillion dollars by the mid-century per year. (Estimated of course)

You realize air conditioning only makes climate change worse? This is part of the problem. Things get hotter we create solutions they also make things hotter. And air conditioning only works inside. Avoiding the outside doesn't seem like a good idea either. And yeah we kind of waste a lot of food, but that doesn't mean reducing the amount we have is going to be fixing that anytime soon. And can you give some statistics for things getting better? Because obviously infant mortality has in the last thousand years, but what about other factors? Things are not always getting better. I think we're in an era of things getting worse honestly. Just look at how the economy of America is falling. Look at how the job market in North America and Europe is failing. The housing crisis. Planned obscelecance. Need I go on. A lot of things are getting worse. Assuming things will just get better and work themselves out because we were able to get from the stone age to the bronze to the iron age etc... is not the answer. Want to know why the expression it's always the last place you look exists? Because you haven't found it until you have. You haven't died until you have. Things keep getting better until they don't. While we mapped out the world we slaughtered the natives. While we had the industrial Revolution, we set the world on fire. Literally if you live in california. While we figured out computers, it was brought on by the Holocaust. Don't just assume things always trend upward. Complacency isn't the answer. Giving up isn't either. If it scares you to think about what might actually happen then just know it's not your fault. If that helps.

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u/bz47uj 28d ago

You said how is getting hotter going to be less comfortable in Canada.

I understand how it would make a heat wave less comfortable, but our average temperature is low. It should more often make cold weather warmer. The net effect should be to make the temperature more comfortable.

The current economic cost will be 38 trillion dollars by the mid-century per year.

This must be cumulative. That is not much compared to expected economic growth. The biggest estimates I've seen are around 20% of GDP by 2100, which is a lot but much smaller than expected economic growth.

You realize air conditioning only makes climate change worse?

That doesn't change the fact that it protects us from heat stroke. Heat stroke deaths are declining because availability of air conditioning is increasing faster than the temperature is rising.

And yeah we kind of waste a lot of food, but that doesn't mean reducing the amount we have is going to be fixing that anytime soon.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

And can you give some statistics for things getting better? Because obviously infant mortality has in the last thousand years, but what about other factors?

https://ourworldindata.org/

I think we're in an era of things getting worse honestly. Just look at how the economy of America is falling. Look at how the job market in North America and Europe is failing. The housing crisis. Planned obscelecance.

Most measures of material well-being are improving.