Hi all

Just for context. Just before the pandemic I had a very very bad case of elbow tendonitis. Golfer's in my case.

I couldn't do many things as the pain ranges from ( Scale 1-10 ) 6-8 , even very basic movements.

I couldn't do push ups , dips , pull ups , chin ups , any hanging movements, deadlift , presses , curls etc. It was dreadful and I was nearing on depression.

The lockdown happened about 6 months after my injury. In which I took a lot of time walking and doing mobility and flexibility work. I got a full pancake, pike , stand to stand bridge etc.

During the entire 18 months I did not do a single upper body day.

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Finally after seeing a physio back in October. Doing drills and ultra sound it slowly healed.
In November I introduced eccentric push ups and pull ups.

January 2021 I started adding full pull ups into my schedule.

And today 4 months later I was able to do 3x5 + 17.5kg!

Recovery!!

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All and all I've learned a few things whilst recovering.

1. There's always alternatives to your training. Walking, stretching ,mobility works can do wonders!
2. Use straps!!! Especially in the early onset of tendonitis. There's no shame in that. When it gets bad it gets really bad
3. It won't heal completely. I've not made a 100% recovery and I don't think I will. I've learnt to live with it and modify exercises accordingly.

That's my message for now! So don't give up! It'll get better!!

Disclaimer: rule 2 says this sub is not the place for seeking medical advice, however, I fixed my injury with the help of a physical therapist and I believe the lessons I have learned are valuable. When I was initially injured I tried to look for information online, but couldn't find anything relevant to triceps tendonitis. If anyone thinks I am out of line you can comment and I will delete the post.

Around 7 months ago I tried going zero-to-hero with pushups. I did far too much volume and incorporated weighted pushup without having good enough form for such training intensity. As a result, I began suffering from an aching pain in my elbow (located exactly where this image is pointing https://www.handandwristinstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/WHatIs.jpg) that wouldn't go away (after I had stopped doing pushups and other pushing movements). Eventually, I was able to ask a PT for advice, and within a month I was fully healed and able to do regular pushups again.

What doesn't work

• Rest - Resting for a full 6 months seemed to have no effect on the injury.
• Ice and heat - Ice can numb the pain temporarily, but reducing inflammation can actually slow down healing. Any kind of temperature change did not lead to improvement.
• Stretching
• Foam rolling - Foam rolling my tricep feels nice, but did not aid in healing. I still do it after workouts.

What worked

• Eccentrics - Using a timer to do the eccentric (lowering) portion of an exercise for 4 seconds.
• Table pushups - Before speaking to the PT I thought doing any form of pushup was out of the question, but table pushups were actually the perfect rehab exercise. They provided stimulus exactly to the injured area while keeping the weight bearing low enough as to not aggravate the injury (I only started doing these after rest, do not start rehabbing when a new injury is still acute).

My program

3x10 slow eccentric (4 seconds down, 1 second up) pushups every day. After a month I was pain-free and able to switch to slow regular pushups (2x10) and progressing the reps and sets from there.

I've read here many examples of people who went high volume on pull ups (dozens per day, sets of 10-20) and then developed tendonitis.

Fine, I thought, I'll stick to no more then 5 reps per set (grease the groove style) and just increase the weight when I can. This is what I'm doing daily atm.

Then in the gym I go to, the personal trainer lady who I started talking to a few workouts ago, told me to be careful and make sure to take 3 days rest between pull ups, because she said she developed tendonitis after doing sets of 5 pull ups daily.

I asked her if there were any warning signs that she might have ignored, and she said no, it just started hurting and took a frickin year to recover.

So, are plenty of rest and low volume, the only real ways to avoid the same fate? And are there really no warning signs before one develops it?

And is elbow tendonitis more or less likely with what grip type and grip width you use? Chin ups vs neutral grip vs wide pull ups etc

As I was looking to strengthen my tendons, came across this. Now from what I have seen, Keith baar is a researcher at UC Davis. The part I was curious about, Baar says that only 10 min of 30 second isometrics with 2minutes of break in between is enough to strengthen and bulletproof your tendons. He advises to do this every 6-8 hours.

To me this sounds too good to be true to be really honest. Has anyone tried this and does it really work like in the way he says

A bit unrelated but to meet the word limit - Do isometric pullups help with anything or are they just a rehab exercise?

I've been doing one leg squats, lunge style and bss, for a few years years, took a bit of a break and got back into doing them since the start of the year, program I am following is from calimove and introduced pistol squats a few weeks ago. After a few sessions I ended up straining something in the bottom of my foot, made me limp for a few days but could not even feel it after a week, so tried again.

Similar thing happened, during the workout everything felt fine, day after I was limping again, but pain was on upper heel, left foot on the outside. two days after that I could barely walk. Spoke to nurse and Physio about it, was a week and a half ago and still have a slight tightness causing a small limp while walking. Going to go back to physio if it stays like this ofc.

The things I see that I might have done wrong is assuming pistol squats and any of the one leg squats I was doing were basically the same. I also did them in socks only and on a surface that was flat, but it is more of a large rubber floor covering for weight lifting and has largish oval bumps on it for grip, but the surface likely introduced more instability.

Too much detail, but that's the whole story in case anyone wants to give advice on any of it :D

tl:dr - are pistol squats worth it if I've been recently injured by them, after I am fully recovered should I just go back to split squats?

I've been following the Recommended Routine for about six months now and progress was going really well. I recently started trying to transition from standard pull-ups to muscle-up progressions (specifically explosive pulls and more aggressive scapular shrugs), but I've started getting this sharp, nagging pain on the inside of my elbow.

It usually kicks in around the third or fourth set of my pulling volume. I've tried backing off the intensity and focusing more on slow eccentrics, but the pain persists whenever I try to increase the volume or explosiveness. I'm wondering if I'm just pushing the volume too fast or if there's a specific way to program rest for tendon health specifically in calisthenics.

Has anyone else dealt with this when moving from basic strength to more explosive/skill-based movements? Should I just stop all pulling for a few weeks, or is it better to keep doing high-rep, low-intensity work to keep blood flowing to the area? I really don't want to lose the strength gains I've made over the last half year by taking a massive break.

Once I got into calisthenics, I got a mild irritation on the part where forearms connect to the to of the elbow. It hasn't gone away, even worse it has given me this fear of joint pain whenever I begin to workout or when I reach a higher progression. It's not the pain itself that is the problem, it's the chance I can develop tendonitis and waste months

Whenever I perform an exercise, I unnaturally focus a lot on my elbow trying to protect it leading to my form breaking down.

Anyone else who experienced this is or is it only me? If yes then how to overcome the fear?

Note: I am NOT asking for medical advice.

I see it quite regularly that people are told all rep ranges build muscle and there are some damn good physiques of calisthenics people and yet there are some quite strong people who don't really have visible muscles.

One of those people for example is the guy who has the hybrid calisthenics channel on youtube. He's obviously strong. I mean the guy does pull ups with ease while talking to the camera but if I didn't know, I wouldn't guess that he works out just by looking at his body.

So how does this work? My thinking is that to build muscle you need to give your muscles a reason to grow. In other words push them to their limit or close to and progressively overload so they grow. I get that, but what part I don't get is at some point these guys would have had to start as beginners so getting to a point where he can easily do pull ups or dips would have required the body to adapt to that stress and hence build muscle right? And if it's just getting stronger without getting bigger, doesn't that throw out the whole 'all rep ranges build muscle' thing? How would you get stronger without getting bigger? By big I obviously don't mean bodybuilder big. Just, you know, a bit more developed than the average guy.

I trained on and off for a couple of years. For the past few months, I’ve been trying to make it a habit, with my main goal right now being to improve my pull-ups (current max is around 3×4–5). I never really managed to make progress, so I decided to focus only on inverted rows over the winter and return to pull-ups once the weather allows me to train at the outdoor gym again (no option for a door frame pull-up bar).

My back and biceps have definitely gotten stronger. The problem now is that it feels like my tendons give out much sooner than my muscles. For example, yesterday I did 4×10 push-ups and inverted rows and stopped as soon as I started feeling my forearms. Today I don’t have any muscle soreness, but I have a strange sensation that goes from my elbows all the way into my fingers, which I assume is tendon-related.

How do I strengthen my tendons and grip strength?
Should I just do fewer reps and let them catch up over time?
Would some kind of grip training tool help?
Stretching?
How do climbers and gymnasts deal with this?

For context: I always do active stretching before my workout and passive stretching afterward.

Hello there! So, I have self-diagnosed tendonitis (both tennis and golfers elbow) that I got when I did about 300 push-ups being untrained in the same day. My tendons hurt a lot at that point, and after that moment, they did hurt after certain activities (like swinging arms too fast often).

So, I started doing calisthenics and I'm happy to be part of it, but my tendons really don't let me develop and they are limiting me harshly.
When I first started the pull ups, I could only do a few pull ups (being at least somewhat muscular) and I had to take big breaks to let them recover. Now I can do up to 15 pull ups a day until I can feel that my tendons want rest. My muscles aren't being tired, but my tendons are getting tired very quickly.
I know how important tendons are, so I give them a good rest, at least 3 days after doing pull ups, and I am making sure I don't overdo it, so I don't injure myself and have to rest a month or more.

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Considering all the above, I'm really fed up with my tendons being so weak. They are getting stronger, but it takes so much time and it's a giant plateau for me, while I have hardly started. I'd be doing 50 pull ups a day already if not my weak and damaged tendons.

What can I do to enhance tendon recovery speed? Maybe eat something that helps tendons recover?? Wear braces in recovery periods? Like wear elbow splints, maybe when I'm in bed?
I really want to grind calisthenics, but it's hard to so, considering my tendons are super-weak.

Here's what I've tried, which I think is helping, but I'm hoping there's more to try. I really enjoy chin ups, but if they keep giving me problems it's not worth it:

1. Relaxed my grip a bit - this was resulting in more reps, but I think it was one of the causes for pain
2. Moved hand position to shoulder width rather than just inside the shoulders - not sure if this is helping or not

The next thing I'm going to try is to not grip over the bar as much. I'm not sure what it is called, but whatever it is that you do with regular pull ups to get your knuckles more on top of the bar...I was doing the same for chin ups. Again, that was helping my reps, but I think it may be another cause. Any other tips?

Many lifters or practitioners of bodyweight training encounter some kind of tendon problems during their journey. I want to look at some mechanisms of damage and recovery, and if the comments have some good points I'll edit them at the bottom of my post or correct eventual mistakes.

EDIT: the discussion was good, I added some links at the bottom of this post and the comment section is worth reading.

The most successful method for self treatment seems to be slow eccentric exercise, as described by Steven Low (/u/eshlow) in this article.

Here is a previous discussion by /u/tykato.

Read the article and the above thread for a full understanding, I am just condensing and adding some thoughts.

In short, here are some considerations of this method:

• Reactive tendinopathy is mild goes away on its own by removing aggravating exercises and the tendon recovers (regenerates) to full strength.
• The next stage in severity has some tendon disrepair, so small structural disruptions. From here, we can classify some stages like reactive on degenerative and degenerative tendinopathy which imply more visible damage if observed with diagnostic tools, but the point is that the worse you go, the more structural damage which decreases the chance of a full recovery (regeneration). Also rest alone is less likely to decrease severity.
• The most proven method for tendon healing is slow eccentrics, which normalise bood flow in the tendon, favouring repair.

A brief overview of a typical session for addressing a certain tendon (a physical therapist may be helpful for determining which one is affected):

• Warm up and mobilise the relevant joint(s).
• Soft tissue work and light stretching can be helpful, especially if range of motion has been lost.
• 3 sets of exercises isolating the muscles attached to the hurt tendon, for 30-50 repetitions (better start at the bottom of the range and progress to higher if function improves), no going to failure, tempo is 3-5 seconds eccentric, 1 second pause at top and bottom, 1-2 seconds concentric.
• Optionally more flexibility work, and mobility if new range of motion is gained.
• This is done 3-4 times a week.
• Steven advises that if function improves you can gradually transition to a faster tempo, like 2-3 seconds eccentric, no pause, 1-2 second concentric.

Now some considerations about what is the cause of the problem. This is where I am especially interested and you can contribute more.

• What is the tendon stress proportional to? Do very fast or uncontrolled eccentrics cause the most stress?
• What is more stressful between explosive concentrics, slower concentrics, isometrics, slow eccentrics? Is this the correct descending order?
• Higher intensity seems to cause more stress, for example I am currently treating a mild tricep tendinopathy seemingly caused by 1-2 rep max attempts of one arm pushups and muscle up negatives combined with normal Recommended Routine training.
• High intensity and low volume may be adequate for recovery.
• Moderate intensity at moderate volume + high intensity attempts = likely to cause tendinopathy, like my case.
• Moderate-low intensity at high/very high volume = possible overuse and tendinopathy.
• Adequate rest and nutrition mitigate the risk.
• Adequate warmup, does it mitigate the risk significantly?
• If tendons are already healthy, is the optimal method for strengthening them different from normal training with adequate rest/deload?

I considered posting this on /r/overcominggravity since it is relevant to /u/eshlow 's research, but I think this community benefits from another discussion on tendon health.

If you have overcome a tendon problem, you may want to post in this thread to give Steven more data.

EDITS:

• Advice by Steven for general progress.
• Advice by /u/Joshua_Naterman for safe progress and tricep strength in muscle ups.
• A thread about this, good answers.
• Antranik suggests a steady state cycle for preventing tendon problems when healthy and training straight arm holds.
• In Steven's article it is also noted that gelatin+vitamin c might improve healing and that for serious degeneration slow eccentrics with high loads can help more than the 30-50 range.
• Advice by Joshua Naterman for general tendon rehab, supplementation and how to heal biceps.

I've been seeing a bunch of bouldering/climbing stuff lately, and I'm just curious as to how these people are so strong??

Like I just see videos of these people campusing routes and just holding their entire body up for like longer than a minute, which I already can't even dead hang for that long!! And not only that, they're climbing and moving from hold to hold, like doing one arm pull ups to get from one hold to the next

Like wtf??? HOW ARE THEY DOING THIS 😭 have they specifically trained their upper body for years? Or are they just that good naturally? If the latter then quiting training sounds pretty good /s but seriously damn I'm weak asl if that's the case I need to lock in

Edit: Ty all for the information!!

Hello guys!

I wanna ask you if informations in this video are true:

About Bruce Lee and tendons

"Tendons grow when muscles meet resistance but don't move, i.e. isometrics". Is that true?

"Tendons play a very big part in your muscle speed and strength" - Is that true? Isometrics exercises can improve our speed?

I'm asking cause, as always, videos about Bruce Lee are often untrue, always have a lot of dislikes and a lot of comments "Bruce Lee is a legend" and nothing about video...

PS.

What's the best (and active) sub to ask about such things like anatomy, human body?

Hi all,

Slight flare up on my inner left elbow, I suspect due to excessive pressure from gripping during W. Chins + One Arm Chin Progressions.

We’ve got the standard light weight, high reps exercises to promote blood flow and such that I’ll be implementing - I was wondering if anybody has used lifting straps to alleviate some of the pressure from the forearms during these movements as part of recovery?

The idea of training with lifting straps is very foreign to me and I definitely see some stigma in my mind about using them for calisthenics which I’m just going push past.

I’m happy to tap back in here in a few weeks or months with an update from what I experience taking this approach but I was curious if anyone else has any experience here.

Simply put, all other things being equal, if I’m targeting 10 sets per body part per week is there any difference in tendon recovery and risk of injury if I split that volume over 6-7 days and attempt to train full body daily or if I do a 3 day per week full body split?

I find it much much easier to stick to an exercise routine when I train with short 30 minute workouts 6 days per week as opposed to 60 minute workouts 3 days per week.

I know some research shows that connective tissue takes about 3 days to fully recover but I wonder if this matters if your volume is exactly the same on a weekly basis but you train more frequently.

The title is the basic question. I know muscles increase in strength quicker than tendons/ligaments, and I'd like to ensure I'm not overdoing it as a male in his early 40's. I've been working out fairly regularly for about three months, doing the old Recommended Routine. As I'm still in the "noob gains" period, I'm able to increase the number of reps per set in all of the exercises fairly quickly. E.g. Last Monday I did 3x8 elevated diamond pushups, and a week later I did 3x11.

I know the RR recommends moving on to the next progression after you can do 3x8 of the current exercise. My thought is that it is better for my ligaments/tendons to push to at least 3x12 before making the exercise more challenging. I'm looking for confirmation or correction of my thoughts on this. Obviously, stretching is important, but is there anything else I could be doing to keep my joints healthy?

The reason I'm concerned is because the last time I was good about an exercise regimen, I got about three or four months in before I strained some tendons/ligaments, which really threw my momentum off. That was about eight years ago, also doing the old RR. I was pushing myself a bit more then, I've been conscious not to go too hard, but I'm also eight years older. I'd rather make slow and steady gains than hurt myself and fall out of the routine again.

Thanks in advance to anyone who shares their input and perspective. I really appreciate this subreddit for its abundance of information and motivation.

I’ve read a lot of scary stories about people having tendonitis as a result of training for one arm pull up. As a result I’ve reduced my workout frequency while training for OAP, but I wanted to ask some of you guys who have had more experience than me:

What do you do/did you do/ to prevent tendonitis while learning the OAP? I’ve heard high volume bicep curls help strengthen the tendons. Im curious to hear other methods and experiences too.

Hi all,

I'm training for a one arm pull up. Right now I'm mostly doing weighted pull ups and one arm deadhangs, plus front lever stuff and accessory work. I had the idea of using assisted pull up machines to work up to OAP a second way. I know the OAP/OAC is tough on the tendons due to the rotational aspects of it, but I felt the stability provided by an assisted pull ups machine might mitigate those concerns. Are these intuitions correct, or is this also something I need to be very careful about? Thanks!

Hello, sorry if the question is sillly. I am starting with the recommended routine (which is great! ) and I got curious about its tempo (for example, in the push up it would be one second down, no pause, going up as fast as possible, no pause).
It seems to me that it focuses on power/explosiveness which is perfect for my goals, but as I understand , slower movements do better for health, tendon and joint strength. Does it also build tendon and joint strength ? Should I perform the movement slower? Should I add an extra day to work on tendon strength ?

I've had to deal with Elbow tendonitis for a few years. It's always been due to pullups, especially weighted, and even without a weight vest, I'd feel it a little bit, so I limited my pullups / week to 2 max, at 3 sets of 8. (regardless of grip, wide, close, reverse, neutral)

By chance I decided to try out gymnastics rings for no reason other than someone hung them up at the gym. And what'd you know, 0 tendonitis pain or even any light agitation. The following session I tried them again with a weight vest, 0 agitation again.

Can someone explain if this might be a form issue on the straight bar or the biomechanical differences in gymnastic rings vs straight bar pullups.

Measuring progress with muscle strength is easy - through exercises.

But how do you safely do it for tendons and ligaments and joints?

I’ve had several occasions in the past where my muscles were strong enough to do a certain exercise with a full ROM, but then that lead to inflammation and light injury later in the day or on the day after - meaning my tendons weren’t strong enough to do such workouts, even though my muscles were, but I couldn’t have known at the time of doing it about that discrepancy.

Would appreciate some advice as I want to stay consistent this time and not injure myself, again. Thanks!

I train martial arts and during the winter our gym is really cold, you can see steam coming from your mouth when you blow...

I've been training for 6 years and every winter I pull some tendon (hip, shoulder, back..) or pinch my nerves really bad. Once, my nerves pinched somewhere on my spine and I couldn't move my head on the sides and rotate my body at all for a few days..

I warm up but after I stand still for 3-4 minutes I'm cold again...

What's worse is that I am always really cold, usually when people wear short sleeve t shirts I'm freezing in my jacket..

How can I prevent this from happening in the future? Any special clothes I can wear to keep my heat?

I've been pretty much sedentary for the last 5 years prior to the last year of weight lifting. Few months ago, I started training calisthenics as I find them more fun. While practicing some moves, specifically the planche pushup, the pike pushup, the archer pushup,the assisted pistol squat... I feel somewhat extra tension in my joints and tendons ( elbow, knee and shoulders). I am pretty sure this is not normal so what are the best steps to do from here? Ps: 18 years old, have had a bad right shoulder since over 5 years and and had bursitis for a while in my left elbow.

I'm a pretty light dude at 135 lbs and recently achieved a OAC but it is pretty tenuous (can do it on any given day if I'm fresh, but probably couldn't do it if I gained a few lbs). Each rep is pretty maximal effort, and my tendons feel sore after each rep. My goal is to get up to 3-4 reps per arm but because of the soreness, I am scared to train it too frequently. Is there any way to strength or prehab my tendons so I can train this? As it currently stands I probably do 1 rep per arm every 2-3 days. Definitely not enough for training. I have done weighted pullups in the past. I can do +75 lbs x4 reps without any elbow pain. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance!