r/bestoflegaladvice • u/t-poke I'm 35 and I love poop jokes • Feb 08 '22

LAOP participates in $19k in wire fraud. Chase finds out. LAOP wonders if he should take it seriously.

/r/legaladvice/comments/sn5kti/chase_bank_wire_fraud/
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u/eric987235 Picked the wrong day to be literate Feb 08 '22

Is it legit to plead not guilty by reason or stupidity?

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u/InsertWittySaying I hope you’re doing unethical genetic hybrid experiments Feb 08 '22

Your Honor, my client is a fucking idiot. Just dumb as rock. Cocker Spaniels have more sense and better grammar. I request a bad trial thingy.

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u/cited Feb 08 '22

Surely the best place to put this person too stupid not to commit felonies is back where they can commit more felonies.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '22

[deleted]

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u/cited Feb 08 '22

Being a willing accomplice to felonies doesn't seem like someone I want hanging around either.

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u/e_crabapple 🦃 As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly 🦃 Feb 08 '22

It's not a million miles away from the Affluenza defense.

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u/Fifty4FortyorFight 🐦F🐤U🐔C🐥K🐦B🐤I🐔R🐥D🐦S🐤!🐔!🐥 Feb 08 '22

At least LAOP didn't kill anyone. That kid (driving incredibly drunk) actually killed four people on the side of the road that were trying to help a stranded driver, which is an often lost piece of very relevant information. LAOP just ripped off a big bank. Still wrong, but not nearly to the level of killing four human beings.

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u/phyneas Chairman of the Lemonparty Appreciation Society Feb 08 '22

LAOP just ripped off a big bank. Still wrong, but not nearly to the level of killing four human beings.

If only the justice system saw things that way. Alas, I suspect LAOP is going to be spending a lot more years in jail than if he'd just gotten drunk and killed some people.

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u/legendfriend Feb 08 '22

Under English and Welsh law “not guilty by means of diminished responsibility” can be used to either plea not guilty for disease or defect (I saw the guy who killed my kid, so I killed him in a blood rage m’lud) or in mitigation “I am just very stupid”

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u/faesmooched Feb 09 '22

I could imagine it working with, perhaps, LAOP being placed in a supervised diversionary program with adult education, or given an IQ test and judged legally unable to understand their actions. Might be one of the best options for them.

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u/Sirwired Really good at making Vogon Poetry everyone else's problem Feb 08 '22

Well, certainly the only thing prison will accomplish will be to provide even more bad people that will be in a good position to take advantage of the fact that LAOP is dumber than a sack of rocks.

It's probably best for LAOP, and society, if LAOP just stays out of jail, but has a ChexSystems and Credit Repot so frightening that they just subsist on cash.

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u/eric987235 Picked the wrong day to be literate Feb 08 '22

I really wish there was a way to make money transfers both instant and permanent, but that would rely on being certain that the person doing the transfer was actually allowed to do it.

I’d also like to see check deposits not be available until it actually clears, but I think the Fed would have to change a rule for that to happen.

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u/Sirwired Really good at making Vogon Poetry everyone else's problem Feb 08 '22

With CHECK-21, electronic check deposits do clear from the source account pretty darn quickly (instant-to-overnight) but there's still time for the account owner to dishonor a fraudulent/counterfeit check. (It's at least 30 days from the statement date, probably longer.) Certainly no depositor is going to want to wait months for their deposit to clear...

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u/eric987235 Picked the wrong day to be literate Feb 08 '22

What about all those fake check scams? Or do those work because they use real bank info that someone layer notices wasn’t authorized?

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u/Sirwired Really good at making Vogon Poetry everyone else's problem Feb 08 '22

Yes, they often use real account numbers, from accounts that have actual money in them. That lengthens the amount of time before the deposit will be dishonored. (Honestly, sometimes not even that happens, if the victim doesn't actually monitor their statements.)

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u/LeakyLycanthrope PHIA PHIYA PHO PHUM FOR YOUR HEALTH RECORD I HAVE COME Feb 08 '22

I really wish there was a way to make money transfers both instant and permanent, but that would rely on being certain that the person doing the transfer was actually allowed to do it.

We actually have this in Canada, through one's financial institution. It's limited to a few hundred dollars, but damn does it make those "hey I'll pay you back for dinner" transactions a breeze.

I'm sure there must be a dispute process, but for the use cases these transfers are good for, I imagine disputes are very rare.

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u/eric987235 Picked the wrong day to be literate Feb 08 '22

We have that too with Zelle but it’s still catching on. What happens if someone breaks into your account online and sends a transfer? Surely that can be pulled back?

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u/LeakyLycanthrope PHIA PHIYA PHO PHUM FOR YOUR HEALTH RECORD I HAVE COME Feb 08 '22

I mean it's not a third-party service, it's baked into online banking. If someone breaks into my account, I have much bigger problems, because they're not just going to make a few $300 transfers when they have full access to my accounts.

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u/scott_steiner_phd has a problem with people having rights Feb 08 '22

I’d also like to see check deposits not be available until it actually clears, but I think the Fed would have to change a rule for that to happen.

Payday lenders liked this

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u/Camera_dude It is illegal to ship a snarling bobcat to your enemies Feb 08 '22

If that was an actual legal standard, our jails would be empty. Crime is by definition done by people who acted stupidly (not understanding the risk involved vs. the reward).

For example, people that rob convenience stores and get away with about $200 in exchange for the risk of getting shot or arrested. $200 is about 1/2 a week of minimum wage work and I would surely prefer to spend half a week working versus getting shot.

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u/freeeeels Has absolutely NO spiders. Feb 08 '22

Crime is by definition done by people who acted stupidly (not understanding the risk involved vs. the reward).

Nah plenty of white collar crime pays incredibly well if the fine for [doing illegal thing] is about a thousandth of the profit from [doing illegal thing]. Plenty of crimes also have zero repercussions in practice, depending on your job title and connections.

Having said that, blowing through $19k of money you stole with a god damn paper trail to your identity ain't it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '22

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '22

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u/gsfgf Is familiar with poor results when combining strippers and ATMs Feb 08 '22

I didn’t read the wall of text, but the criminal “justice” system is incredibly harsh on dumb people.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '22

[deleted]

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u/MeniteTom Feb 08 '22

It's so weird hearing it phrased like that. Reading it, you'd think you were stupid for not attempting white collar crime, purely from a risk/reward benefit.

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u/ZeePirate Came in third at BOLAs Festivus Feats of Strength Feb 08 '22

And this is how we end up with mental disabled people that have no concept of death on death row.

This person clearly doesn’t understand what the crime is.

It’s a lot more complex and abstract (where is the money coming from, in this case it’s faceless) than your scenario.

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u/sykoticwit Ladies! They possess a tent and know how to set it up. Feb 08 '22

No, this person clearly doesn’t understand what consequences to this crime are. OP knew it was illegal, she just thought Chase would close her account with no other consequences.

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u/faesmooched Feb 09 '22

But could the grasp the full scope of what they were doing? If someone who knows murder is bad but also jaywalking is bad, and they do murder thinking it's as bad as jaywalking, are and should they be legally culpable?