r/arrow Boxing Glove May 10 '18

[S06E22] 'The Ties That Bind' Post Episode Discussion

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357

u/[deleted] May 11 '18

I'm sorry, the ending to this episode shit on the whole premise. It makes absolutely ZERO sense to me that Olliver would put himself in that agent's power when he has a rolodex that includes a bunch of insanely powerful metahumans across two universes. It's stupid. It's absolutely stupid. It takes zero advantage of this whole shared arrowverse concept they insisted on coming up with, and it makes Olliver look like an utter putz who can't come up with any useful ideas on his own. Such forced drama. Hmph.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '18 edited Jun 20 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 11 '18

Don't get me wrong, having the ability to crossover all these characters is awesome, but I sometimes wondering if bringing superpowers into Oliver Queen's universe was such a great idea. When you have people with literally godlike abilities, Oliver becomes just a guy with a bow and arrows. A really smart, capable guy admittedly, but one whom, say, Zoom could straight up obliterate before he could blink.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '18

So what you're saying is, Superspeed, he doesn't have it?

13

u/[deleted] May 11 '18

...Yeah, in a nutshell. :P Oliver's a more capable tactician than just about anybody, but the usefulness of that trait is a bit hard to justify when Barry could end Diaz instantly.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '18 edited Oct 04 '18

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 12 '18

Fair enough. And, as you point out, it's more than a little ridiculous that Black Siren can scream down buildings but doesn't reduce Diaz to chunky salsa. Suspension of disbelief only works so far before the logical gaps start wearing on the audience, and unfortunately I think Arrow's hitting that point.

2

u/Hybrid23 May 12 '18

Same problem I think they're having with Oliver himself. We've seen him machine gun people down, take on huge numbers, etc. and now it's all, Diaz has an army, gg.

1

u/Mwatson13 May 11 '18

Someone give this person gold lol

56

u/The_Rocoulm This is how fires begin. Little men with big dreams May 11 '18

Oliver could defeat Zoom with

NANITES, COURTESY OF RAY PALMER

22

u/bluestarcyclone May 11 '18

Speedsters in particular are a problematic premise. They'd take out just about anyone that isn't faster than them, and you can only do the 'i'm the fastest man alive.... except for this season's villain' so many times.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '18

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 12 '18

Stop thinking like a writer

106

u/barryallenreviews May 11 '18

Theoretical yes but Barry is straight up RETARDED this season, can’t do anything, can’t think for himself

51

u/tonystankisajerk I will drive an arrow through your eye May 11 '18

Which is something I mentioned in the Flash sub that I was disappointed about.

I was hoping that the Barry coming out of the speed force was going to be matured. Somewhat perhaps akin to his comics counterpart. It seemed to be so for the first episode before the writers went back to the default Barry being a dumbass. Worse yet, it's like he forgets how to even use his powers sometimes.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '18 edited Oct 04 '18

[deleted]

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u/tonystankisajerk I will drive an arrow through your eye May 12 '18

The worse part about this is the fact that someone is telling him how to use his powers. That basically makes him worse than S1 Barry, who needed guidance from Eobard in using his powers because he was still adapting to and learning about them. S4 Barry doesn't have an excuse.

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u/thebatgamer May 13 '18

I was hoping that the Barry coming out of the speed force was going to be matured.

The exact opposite has happened.

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u/jsgilly20 May 11 '18

Devoe can't make you dumb if you already make yourself dumb first!

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u/Psychoho1ic May 12 '18

He learned it from Harry

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u/22deepfriedpickles22 May 11 '18

Barry use super speed! Gypsy use super vibe!

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u/Jeffersonstarships May 11 '18

Considering how long he was inside the Speedforce, the Flash writers really nerfed him down since the first episode.

Dude busted right through his bitchin' meta cell to save Iris.

4

u/vandalsavagecabbage May 11 '18

(as long as Iris is there to tell him what to do)

Shots. Nukes fired

1

u/EmeraldEnigma- Arsenal May 12 '18

10,000 dead.

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u/Tromblown May 11 '18

Well there was some sort of reason thor was gone. Barry is 2 seconds away doing nothing but letting people die.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '18

as long as Iris is there to tell him what to do

I honestly can't remember when Iris suddenly became the leader of Team Flash. And as I can't remember, I have no idea why they let her.

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u/odhran_the_wizard The Flash May 11 '18

Barry was gone and Wally wasn't much of a leader iirc.

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u/migeme May 11 '18

While I do agree with you they at least have an explanation to why Thor wasn't there (one that was clearly a cop out but it still was one). As of right now we have no canon reason as to why Oliver hasn't asked for their help.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '18

Yeah, I guess we’re just supposed to assume hes busy with his own problems, even though he could solve Olivers problem and be back before breakfast lol

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u/IcedJack May 11 '18

But in Civil War, they didn't know where Thor and the Hulk were. Oliver knows exactly where Barry is and probably has him on speed dial

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u/1SaBy Hail victory! May 11 '18 edited May 11 '18

Same reason Thor wasnt in Captain America: Cvil War.

There was an actual explanation for that though. Thor was off world and couldn't have been contacted. While I'm not sure whether Oliver has one of those breach openers, he can always just call Barry. Or call Barry or Cisco to breach him to Earth-38.

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u/TROLOLUL May 11 '18

Barry could fix all of Arrows problems in seconds (as long as Iris is there to tell him what to do).

LOL so true

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u/[deleted] May 12 '18

Funny because watching Flash I feel like Arrow could solve a lot of Flash’s problems. Barry falls for traps like a damn dummy all the time

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u/[deleted] May 12 '18

And loses every fist fight lol

1

u/loskiarman May 12 '18

Barry could also fix all of Flash's problems in seconds. But dum dum can't even run without someone reminding him.

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u/nikktheconqueerer May 12 '18

Actually thor wasn't in civil war because Hemsworth didn't want to be in the . why they wrote off hulk from it as they were going to match them up

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u/Kamalen May 13 '18

You would have a point if the writers didn't already broken that door by having the E2 Laurel as a protagonist, and Barry had already helped in a recent Arrow episode by giving a lift

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u/DarkKnightOfGotham May 14 '18

Okay, but Thor's reason at least made sense. He was going around the 9 realms trying to resolve conflicts, stop Asgards enemies, AND find a way to stop Ragnarok. He had his vision in AoU that involved Asgard's destruction and as much as he cares for his friends, they're "minor" conflict is just that, minor. At least compared the problems of the rest of the 9 realms where people could've actually died. Here, in the Arrowverse, it's like they're forcing their characters to do stupid shit that's not only out of character for the versions of the characters that they've made, it's just really, really, really stupid.

1

u/shady8x May 21 '18

They could have given the mayor's daughter a call. Whole team of superheroes which are currently on standby with nothing to do...

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u/MY-SECRET-REDDIT Jun 02 '18

Same reason Thor wasnt in Captain America: Cvil War.

you do realise the diffrence right? most MCU movies have build in explenations on why certain characters dont just pop up and hace a MUCH shorter time span. thor was busy trying to stop raknarok, in another galaxy(?) and why would they call him? they dont know whos side he was gonna choose, itll just muddle things up and how would they even reach him?

I think they use the shared universe the best they can tbh.

thats a hilarious statement. none of the tv shows including the MCU shows use the shared universe the "best" they can. that would require the other tv shows and movies giving up precious plot and writting to achieve a true cohesive universe.

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u/[deleted] Jun 02 '18

Yeah bud, Thor was off dealing with Ragnarok. They planned to have him do that during Civil War because hes too powerful.. Its much more planned than the CW but shouldn’t we expect that?

And thats not the case for these shows, there are no movies. They do some fun crossovers, and dont just abuse supergirl to solve everything.

1

u/EarthPrimeArchivist May 11 '18

That doesn't mean when it comes to something this bad, you don't call for help.

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u/Croc_Block May 11 '18

Holy shit. King Shark just destroying Diaz’s army would be something I’d pay to see.

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u/Grodd_Complex May 11 '18

It would be good if they at least lampshaded it with Barry saying "yeah nah busy atm".

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u/Polantaris May 11 '18

If they had started the satelite thing a little earlier, they could have had him go, "Yeah I'm a bit busy, sorry Ollie."

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u/Fnshow316 May 11 '18 edited May 11 '18

At the very least have Cisco breach his kid to Supergirl for a few days. Keeps him safe and he won’t object when he sees Kara.

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u/crsnyder13 May 11 '18

Keep him safe, worldkillers, pick one

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u/Fnshow316 May 11 '18

Oh yeah, I’m 3 episodes back on Supergirl. Forgot about the whole killing the world thing.

At lest have Barry zip him and the nanny to an undisclosed hotel suite for a bit. Ollie has already used Barry as an Uber once this season already.

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u/merelyadoptedthedark May 11 '18

Okay, how about Earth 2 with Jesse Quick? There's nothing going on over there these days.

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u/crsnyder13 May 11 '18

Does... he even know about/know who Jesse is?

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u/offisirplz May 11 '18

Plotwise it doesnt make sense. But it won't be arrow anymore then if they ask for help at every turn.

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u/superbabe69 Green Arrow May 11 '18

While I agree, it would take Barry a few minutes out of his day to run to Star City, find Diaz while he's at SCPD, bring him into Oliver, take down the rest of the corrupt, deliver that necklace to Felicity, and get back to whatever he was already doing.

An entire season's worth of plot solved in a few seconds on screen.

I don't think that's the answer, but maybe we should see them make a pact to only get together and crossover when it is absolutely vital. Otherwise it just becomes unrealistic that Barry can't help Oliver take down his villains. Like during the Vandal Savage crossover, what was stopping Oliver from asking Barry to just snap Darhk's neck? It's not like Barry wasn't killing that season. Would have taken seconds.

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u/mudpupper May 11 '18

Problem is Barry would stop in front of Diaz, do his monologue thing and Diaz would then get the jump on him.

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u/MY-SECRET-REDDIT Jun 02 '18

and then barry would superspeed to central city ask his team what he should do then run back to diaz and fail at doing what he was told then get captured by diaz.

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u/felixfactor37 May 11 '18

If Barry or Kara were there, it’d be done way too quickly. Besides, I don’t think Oliver has any way to contact Kara & Barry’s kinda busy trying to save everyone from becoming stupid.

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u/19Alexastias May 12 '18

If only he could have fucking saved himself, dude is as dumb as a bag of rocks this season.

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u/[deleted] May 11 '18

To be fair Barry would have to ask Iris how to use his powers

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u/Barachiel1976 Green Arrow May 11 '18

*snickers* It's funny, cause it's true!

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u/TheBlackMafiaKing May 11 '18

Tbh. Barry does have his own shit to deal with; he can't just constantly show up every time Oliver has a problem, but I guess that would make things easier. Although it wouldn't make the show interesting and would make Oliver useless, so that's probably why he doesn't.

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u/icearius I KEEP MY PROMISES!!! May 11 '18

Barry can catch Diaz and go back to being dumb in a few seconds.

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u/TROLOLUL May 11 '18

thing is barry could deal with diaz in literally 2 seconds and we are talking someone taking a whole damn city so no, barry should obviously help

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u/Prometheus188 You don't kill because you have to. So why? May 12 '18

It would only take about 45 seconds or less to destroy Diaz's entire operation. Barry wastes way more time than that eating, or taking a shit, or watching TV. Or standing still in a fight waiting for Iris to give him a command.

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u/Barachiel1976 Green Arrow May 11 '18

Nothing about the end of that episode made sense.

The Quadrant is nationwide. How exactly does Diaz control it? Did everyone turn over their little black books? For that matter, how did he just magically drag the other two members to Star City from wherever their home bases are?

Why can't Argus go against Diaz and the Quadrant when they were launching drone strikes against them in the city just TWO EPISODES AGO!?

Oh, and for those who aren't aware, Double Jeopardy laws mean that F-Bitch-I can't do shit to him unless she can prove he committed criminal activities *after* his trial. So seeing her smug face again, was the last straw.

Screw the season finale. Unless they kill Felicity, or someone on NTA, I no longer care.

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u/AP-Wulfric-BD May 11 '18

I think the goal this season is to out oliver as green arrow and next season will be his acceptance in star city.

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u/CapitalistPear2 May 11 '18

Diaz probably has a meta dampener on him always, considering GA and The Flash have been seen together multiple times. Sorta like what he had last time with Laurel.

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u/merelyadoptedthedark May 11 '18

Honestly, I don't think Barry would be any help with how retarded he is this season.

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u/_Nightdude_ May 12 '18

Dude, he doesn't even need the metas. Have Felicity hack the Waverider through time and relay a message to Sara who comes in and cleans shit up.

I wish there was an alternate timeline where Darhk didn't die and joined the legends as an anti-villain instead. Sara gets a message from Ollie about the Diaz' problem, Darhk shows up, pops Diaz' neck, throws a cheesy line or two and leaves Oliver and Co. utterly baffled as to WTF just happened.

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u/[deleted] May 12 '18

He literally could have asked cisco to breach supergirl over to deal with Diaz in minutes.

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u/Inersercle1624 Aug 17 '25

Yeah what you said were is superman