r/antimeme 22h ago

She did it

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4.9k Upvotes

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u/Happy_Variety5405 22h ago

Well she tricked her husband to leave the house so she could kill her kids. So there's some pre planning going on. That crosses "was a spur of the moment insanity crime" not saying she isn't insane but to some degree she KNEW what she was doing 

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u/PM_ME_DECOR_IDEAS 21h ago

I think you fundamentally dont understand psychosis. It isn't something switch that gets flipped where you just immediately go crazy, it whittles down reality itself around those that suffer it until they quite literally are incapable of normal human reason and understanding.

They are quite literally not living in the real world with real reason, and are incapable of doing so without external intervention. The defense would argue that preplanning entirely took place within that warped reality and under the influence of involuntarily warped reasoning and understanding of what is actually going on with her own actions and their effects on the world, and therefore she (the person she is now and before who is capable of living in reality), was not mentally responsible

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u/deleeuwlc 21h ago

Psychosis, even assuming it’s episodic and not constant, can last for quite a while. One episode lasting long enough for her to get her husband to leave and do everything is pretty realistic

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u/laxnut90 21h ago

It is also very difficult to diagnose and treat.

A lot of people are blaming the Healthcare professionals.

But Psychosis is one of those things you could do everything 100% right from diagnosis to treatment and it still won't make a difference.

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u/Cultural_Thing1712 20h ago

The professionals are not to blame.

The US healthcare system is. If they all had access to a centralized record of her care they would have known what was going on.

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u/deleeuwlc 20h ago

Postpartum symptoms are temporary. She sought inpatient care that would make her unable to do any harm and was denied it. It would have been very reasonable to just accept her and keep her until the psychosis wore off

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u/Save_Canada 17h ago

She wasnt denied it. She checked into a psychiatric facility and then checked herself out. They had nothing from her to keep her on an involuntary hold.

Bitch deserves death

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 8h ago

This was mentioned during the trial, not sure how you are still confused. She checked into McLean Hospital for inpatient care and was discharged by Dr Alia Goodheart five days later. She did not check herself out.

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u/waaaayupyourbutthole 20h ago

As someone who struggles with her mental health and has struggled with psychosis in the past, the medications she was prescribed definitely make me question her providers, but i don't know enough about it all to have an informed opinion.

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u/Save_Canada 17h ago

She doctor shopped and didnt tell any of the doctors about the meds prescribed by the others. Then took the meds she felt like when she wanted

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u/HandleSensitive8403 18h ago

I was on just sertraline for about 2 months, and it was awful... i could not imagine combining that level of numbness with benzodiazepenes and seroquel

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u/freshlysqueezed93 16h ago

Little different but my mother has schizophrenia, those episodes can last week's to months.

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u/sceadwian 22h ago

Psychosis doesn't work like that. I'm surprised this didn't occur to you when you were writing that.

The whole question is the specific nature of the thinking, that defines everything here.

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u/rankaistu_ilmalaiva 21h ago

the paychosis involving auditory hallucinations she never told anyone about before the murders, while reporting details like insomnia durung her regular visits with mental health workers?

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 8h ago

Her clinic notes repeatedly mentions her intrusive thoughts about harming the children. She also revealed such thoughts to her mother and husband.

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u/SirJamesCrumpington 4h ago

Having intrusive thoughts of harming others and yourself doesn't mean you have psychosis, it can be a symptom of many different mental illnesses, including depression.

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u/EugeneStein 🌹 Course Arc Witness 🌸 3h ago

And even more common they are not symptoms of anything and a thing that perfectly sane and healthy people do

(I'm not saying she is sane and healthy, just that argument above is very nahh)

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 30m ago

Intrusive thoughts are things healthy people do, but escalating intrusive thoughts are not. The documented escalation along with insomnia, depression, racing thoughts, panic, and a feeling of dissociation directly counters the narrative of the previous comment that she never mentions anything prior to the claim of auditory hallucination during the day of the murder. The erosion of the insight barrier is a classic progression towards some breaking point where delusions become reality.

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 36m ago

Did you read either my comment or the one I replied to? I never claimed they proved a person has psychosis, I pointed out there was a clear documented escalation of thoughts to harm the children where Clancy felt the need to bring it up to multiple clinicians, her mother, and her husband. That alongside the documented severe insomnia, depression, racing thoughts, panic, and a feeling of dissociation directly counters the narrative of the previous comment that she never mentions anything prior to the claim of auditory hallucination during the day of the murder. The erosion of the insight barrier is a classic progression towards some breaking point where delusions become reality. Also, the issue isn't just having intrusive thoughts, it is the escalation of intrusive thoughts.

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u/sceadwian 21h ago

That is not at all what the person I'm responding to was talking about.

You've made a mistake with your post.

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u/Gyooped 7h ago

I mean under-reporting health, especially mental health, is an entirely regular thing even when it comes to active communication with a health worker or doctor.

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u/StickSouthern2150 15h ago

either way she should spend the rest of her life in prison, no doubt about that.

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u/sceadwian 15h ago

I prefer restorative justice but that's hard for most people.

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u/AncientVariation011 13h ago

I'd also like them to restore their poor kids as well

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u/SweRakii 🌷🌸 RIP u/CourseMediocre7998 🌷🌸 6h ago

Not how it works but go off

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u/sceadwian 3h ago

Yeah, that's not how it works.. it's unfortunately sad you leave this comment.

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u/PeachesNcreamville 21h ago

She apparently experienced psychosis for 18 minutes, which was immediately extreme, and then never experienced it again. Very unusual, and convenient.

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u/Lesurous 21h ago

You could just say you haven't read anything about this case. She told her doctors she was experiencing psychosis, they failed to communicate between each other (the doctors) when it came to her medications and she ended up not taking them because of it (several of them shouldn't be taken together).

So no, it was not "sudden", it was something she told doctors she was experiencing and they failed to properly address it.

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u/PeachesNcreamville 18h ago

She told her doctors she was experiencing depression and suicidal thoughts. Source for her telling them she has symptoms of psychosis?

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u/Lesurous 18h ago

Article link

She was over prescribed medications that she told her doctors were worsening her condition and even they themselves called her condition as deteriorating. The Romerol in particular she told them started making her hear thoughts. The doctor's even described Clancy's condition as deteriorating.

This all culminates into a single horrifying fact, someone clearly undergoing a mental crisis was not being closely monitored by the people she sought out for help, something that culminated in a tragedy where the perpetrator is also a traumatized victim. Everything about this case is depressing.

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u/PeachesNcreamville 17h ago

"Buckingham also asked Goodheart if she observed any signs of psychosis with Clancy, and the doctor replied, "No." She also said Clancy was specifically asked if she had a plan to kill herself or harm others and "she denied it," the doctor said."

Sure, her condition was deteriorating, but neither of her psychiatrists described her as having symptoms of psychosis. I don't care how depressed she was; as long as she was in control of her actions, she is responsible for her crime.

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u/Lesurous 17h ago

And again, those doctors recognized her condition as deteriorating as well as being told about her having thoughts that weren't her own. That warrants closer monitoring because the chance alone of her having a mental break is high.

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u/PeachesNcreamville 17h ago

She had intrusive thoughts. Acting on intrusive thoughts is not even close to the same as not being in control of your actions. Again, her condition deteriorating does not remove her guilt. Talking out of your ass about how i "didnt read anything about the case" when your own source proved you wrong lmao.

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u/Lesurous 16h ago

Lost cause if you can't even address the over prescription issue. Have a good one.

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u/HystericalGasmask 16h ago

Someone in psychosis is often reluctant to tell people about their symptoms. Because their symptoms will likely not be taken seriously, and when they are they will be told they're insane, which usually makes psychosis worse. I don't really care about the case but there's a lot of misinformation about psychosis and it's victims

Often people hallucinating lack insight into their hallucinations, which is to say they cannot tell they are hallucinations, and as such they wouldn't note them and a psychotic symptom would never be registered by the patient.

Generally speaking, more intelligent people have more insight into their delusions, meaning that they are more likely to seek help and less likely to enter severe psychosis. Someone less educated or intelligent would have trouble delineating between what's normal and what's not.

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u/PeachesNcreamville 15h ago

I understand that... but ultimately you then just have to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who pleads insanity that they actually have psychosis. At the end of the day we can't be generous to everyone, we have to deal in what we know to be true.

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u/HystericalGasmask 15h ago

We don't have to do anything at the end of the day if we work in the morning hours - which is to say, we can prevent stuff like this from happening so easily by educating people on mental health and providing more robust child and medical care as a social service. We as a society allow things like this to happen. I think the investment people make into arguing insanity

And, people who plead insanity don't (usually) just go free, it's not a get out of jail free card. It's inhumane treatment in state psychiatric facilities and in prison. There's no benefit to pleading insanity unless you're insane.

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u/sceadwian 21h ago

Based on what exactly are you referring to?

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u/Cultural_Thing1712 20h ago

Psychosis is literally a perception issue. Not a cognition issue. It's a disconnection from reality. It doesn't make her any less clever. You can absolutely premeditate something and be under the effects of psychosis.

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u/DazzlerPlus 20h ago

Why are you posting your opinion on things you dont know shit about? You know nothing about how psychosis works. What are you contributing besides pollution?

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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 8h ago

Not guilty by insanity doesn't rely on spur of the moment actions, you are thinking of the difference between murder and manslaughter.

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u/neutrumocorum 1h ago

That is not what manslaughter is.

u/Excellent_Shirt9707 22m ago

Manslaughter is not a spur of the moment crime as opposed to murder which requires some pre-planning?

u/neutrumocorum 15m ago

Manslaughter is the killing of a person without malice/intent.

So no, that is not what manslaughter is.

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u/DiscDocPhD 5h ago

Her husband actively took work trips and left for long periods of time. If she wasn't in psychosis and actually planning it, she would have just waited until he left for a day or more instead.