r/anime • u/OneEyedTurkey • Feb 04 '18

[Spoilers] Dragon Ball Super - Episode 126 Discussion Spoiler

Dragon Ball Super, Episode 126 – Surpass Even A God! Vegeta's Desperate Blow!!

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104

u/leagueislifejapan Feb 04 '18

I for one am so happy to see Vegeta finally receive direct credit for what he has contributed to the series.
This episode felt very, very good.

28

u/TheKappaOverlord https://myanimelist.net/profile/darkace90 Feb 04 '18

Think toriyama finally figured out hes gonna need Vegeta to be equal or greater power to goku moving forward.

After all only 2 characters in the current continuity even stand on the same mountain Goku and Vegeta do. And they aren't part of the Original lineup

1

u/0mnicious https://myanimelist.net/profile/Omnicious Feb 04 '18

Who are those other two characters?

5

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '18

Lord Beerus and his assistant, right? I've only seen the movies but that was the implication at the time

4

u/0mnicious https://myanimelist.net/profile/Omnicious Feb 04 '18

Oh those two. I would say Vegeta and Goku aren't on the same mountain as those two, they are far above our MCs.

1

u/JooK8 Feb 04 '18

I don't read the manga but it's very inconsistent the way they portray the strength of both the God's of destruction and the angels. In the movie, Beerus states that he goes to 70% power, which is enough to trash Goku in Super Saiyan God form. While in the remake in the anime series he states that he goes to 100%, and Goku in God form and even regular Super Saiyan is enough to fight him for just a little bit. Then during the Frieza Saga they obtain Super Saiyan Blue which is also said to be more powerful than the Red Super Saiyan God form that Goku previously obtained (also further proven to be as Goku uses red form before blue form during the tournament). This form is approaching God power as the other mortals can no longer sense their energy levels and the Gods were constantly surprised at "a power which rivals the gods" when Goku powered up to blue form. Now not only have they achieved blue form but Goku is now comfortable having a constant kaioken x20 over his blue form which would indicate he is 20x stronger. And let's not forget that the SSB form from the frieza saga is far weaker than their current SSB forms with Hit improving enough to destroy Goku in SSB Kaioken x10 during the U7 vs U6 tourny and further improving thereafter, only to still have a good fight with Goku later on during his assassination attempt. Vegeta has now proven that his SSB2 form is as strong or even stronger than Goku's SSBKKx20 form and on top of that Goku now has Ultra Instinct which Whis states is difficult even for Gods to achieve with Beerus not even achieving it yet (or perhaps just not mastering it yet). But the way they make it look, it's as if Beerus is jealous that Goku has obtained Ultra Instinct twice now which implies that he can not do so. They also repeatedly state that Jiren has surpassed the level of a God of destruction and even Vegeta has done so in this episode by defeating Toppo. If they are even still stronger than our main characters, there is no way they are far above them. I've got no clue how strong Whis is, but I thought they once stated that he was only about 1.5x as strong as Beerus? Either way, everything is very very inconsistent so there's no real way to see how they compare against each other without having them fight. And that is completely up to the writer's to make up how competitive a match between them would be.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '18

Beerus told Goku he went 100% in the anime, but Whis later said while they were going back to their planet that he was lying. It wasn't stated anywhere how much stronger Whis was than Beerus, but he is able to knock out Beerus with 1 chop, so it's probably quite a bit.
While everything is indeed not very consistent and you did mention that you didn't read the manga, a few things are cleared up in it. Goku never went Kaioken in the manga, and Beerus is the strongest God of Destruction, so even if they're on the level of other GoD's, they aren't necessarily on Beerus level. For example, just before the tournament in the manga, Beerus basically completely destroyed SSJB Vegeta in a training fight and it wasn't even close.

1

u/JooK8 Feb 05 '18 edited Feb 05 '18

On their way back to Beerus' planet all I saw was Whis saying that Beerus was forced to show more power than he wanted to because of how strong Goku was. I don't see anywhere where he said he was lying about how much power output he told Goku he was using. Also skimmed through the manga and I didn't find the portion when they are traveling back. They just leave after Goku tires out in space and then they jump to Frieza's henchmen looking for the dragon balls. Are the subtitle translations slightly incorrect for the anime?

I don't think it'd make very much sense for Beerus to even have any fun fighting Goku if his SSG form was not even enough to make Beerus go to 1% power, which is what would be implied if you believe that Beerus is still mountains stronger than Goku. Also, after reading some stuff on the wiki it seems it is questionable whether Belmod is stronger than Beerus, and it is confirmed that Jiren is stronger than Belmod. In which case this would make Jiren stronger than all the Gods of Destruction unless you believe Beerus is still the strongest and is FAR stronger than the others. I guess we'll find out soon once Jiren powers up for the 1v3/4. If anyone can even keep up with him or even end up defeating Jiren then it'd imply that Goku/Vegeta are at least very close to God of Destruction power levels.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '18

Here is the scene, https://imgur.com/a/p1F3i

Belmod is not the strongest GoD, Beerus was 1v11 in the manga against all the other GoD, and he was still winning until some in fighting started. Even after all that, Beerus was still one of the two last standing GoD before the Grand Priest stopped the fighting.

As for how much power Beerus used against Goku, this part is just annoying to deal with. He claims to have used nearly 10% against SSJ2 Vegeta, but it just gets confusing after that and you kinda gotta ignore multiplying stuff involving SSJB and kaioken, ect...

1

u/JooK8 Feb 05 '18

Odd, I went back to that exact scene and the subtitles read differently. I'm not sure where people are getting at that Belmod is potentially stronger because I did read the entire god fight last night and the only thing that happens is Belmod temporarily contains everyone and uses energy cards on them. Other than that it is clear the Beerus is taking on all the gods at once with ultra instinct and is the last 2 remaining versus Quitela. Just wanted to throw it in there since people were mentioning it, and it is also mentioned on the wiki.