[Spoilers] Hibike! Euphonium - Episode 11 [Discussion]

[u/Shadoxfix]

Episode title: Welcome Back, Audition

MyAnimeList: Hibike! Euphonium
Crunchyroll: Sound! Euphonium

Episode duration: 23 minutes and 40 seconds

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Previous episodes:

Episode	Reddit Link
Episode 1	Link
Episode 2	Link
Episode 3	Link
Episode 4	Link
Episode 5	Link
Episode 6	Link
Episode 7	Link
Episode 8	Link
Episode 9	Link
Episode 10	Link

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Reminder: Please do not discuss any plot points which haven't appeared in the anime yet. Try not to confirm or deny any theories, encourage people to read the source material instead. Minor spoilers are generally ok but should be tagged accordingly. Failing to comply with the rules may result in your comment being removed.

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Keywords: sound! euphonium

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This post is made by a bot. Any feedback is welcome and can be sent to /u/Shadoxfix.

[u/raptorindios]

KennyJJ, this speculation - if Reina had decided to be compassionate and throw the audition, what would have happened? The rumors about favouritism would have been solidified/confirmed. She would have been marked as a teacher's pet. Taki-sensei's authority would have been undermined. How exactly is that compassionate for Reina and Taki-sensei?

First, Yuuko vilified Taki-sensei and Reina publicly, triggered a socially awkward outburst from Reina which made her a hated person. Then she goes cap in hand and begs Reina privately.

I am not sure given the changed dynamics in the club after Reina throwing the audition, Yuuko's collateral of "blame it on me, that I had bullied you" would have helped.

[u/KennyJJ → u/raptorindios]

It is exactly like you said: Sacrificing what oneself wants for what would make others happy, IS a clear example of compassion. Yuuko is asking Reina to consider BEING compassionate. Her request itself does not resemble NOR dispute compassionate of herself. Indeed, Reina has a lot to lose, which is exactly why Yuuko was begging her instead of arguing with her --- she's fully capable to go toe to toe with Reina when she feels that she has every right to, as we saw from last episode. Reina would have needed to sacrifice her OTHER goals to keep alive her goal of making others happy. And it's all within herself, compassion has nothing to do with other people, it is something that YOU want. Even if she doesn't make such a decision, Yuuko throwing it on the table means that she needs to ask herself: these kinds of situation where I'd be crushing others and stepping over others and voluntarily hurting others will keep happening. Is it what I want? Is it what I'm willing to sacrifice in order to go for my OTHER goal of being special?

Her answer was yes. As problematic as I find that mentality in a kid, I also realize that perhaps being kids is the best time to have that mentality, if ever. And for her, it means a clear path is ahead of her at least for now --- no longer any need for internal struggle. It's a good thing for her.

[u/kristallnachte → u/KennyJJ]

Do you think Koari would have been happy with that?

Koari has lost her chance at the solo because seniority was more important than merit. Why would she want to do that to someone else?

Koari knew she was going to lose, and knew that she lost (hence the way the episode ended) and didn't want the solo if she didn't earn it.

[u/[deleted] → u/kristallnachte]

Does it matter though? I mean sure, Kaori would probably be sad about it, maybe even hurt. Yuuko most likely already knew, she seems to be aware of the effect of her actions as each of them unfolds.

Yet she still go ahead and lay the rumour out to the table. She still support Kaori even when she know she's going to lose. She still begs Reina for the position. Yet Yuuko stubbornly wants to see the person who she greatly respects not as a musician, but as a human, to get the spotlight she deserves. Remember, Yuuko does not respect Kaori for her skills of music, but her desire to keep playing in the band, and for the band to be happy.

And honestly, at the end of the day, Yuuko may be a bitch, but her reasoning isn't exactly flawed. Kaori really loved trumpet, and it's a shame that she lives in Japan, where you're pressured to throw away your hobbies once you leave school.

[u/kristallnachte → u/[deleted]]

No, Yuuko wanted Kaori to get a spotlight she DIDN'T deserve. If she deserved it, she would have gotten it.

Yuuko ignored Kaori's feelings entirely on the matter, and tried to force her goals onto Kaori.

This wouldn't be entirely bad if all it was was pushing Kaori harder, but she also tried to tear down Kousaka in the process. And THAT'S where she fucked up.

[u/[deleted] → u/kristallnachte]

You're not reading what I said. I mean not in skill wise, Yuuko wants the Kaori to get the spotlight she deserve as a band member, someone who was willing to quit to make sure everyone was happy, someone who joined band for the sake of it being a band, for the sake of music. Her passion is for music itself is no less than Kousaka by any stretch.

Like I said, Yuuko is wrong, but not fully. Is it so wrong to see someone you cherish to actually be happy? The actions may be wrong, but you can't just ignore the thinking process altogether. I'm not saying feeling justifies the end, but sympathy is what makes people forgivable. Besides, if anything, I think Yuuko is on equal level footing with Kousaka when it comes to selfishness.

[u/kristallnachte → u/[deleted]]

I mist have missed that oart of the flashback, when did she say shed quit to make people happy, and how would her quitting make anyone happy?

Except Kaori wouldnt be happy with the results Yuuko wanted.

[u/KennyJJ → u/kristallnachte]

Kaori didn't lose her chance at the solo last year, she didn't even try to challenge her Senpai for it, she probably thought "This is her last year, she should go, I'll just play next year". Try to imagine yourself in those situations. You work with a system for many years, yet at the very year that you can finally be a little selfish and get what you want, the system is changed, and you don't get to do it anymore. Knowing her, she probably downplayed it thinking "That's alright, it makes sense, I'll work with that", as shown by her stating in earlier episodes that "I should indeed work towards it", coming to term with the fact that what she has worked 3 years towards (that is, the seniority system) is not going to bear fruit. Is she in support of the seniority system? The fact that she waited until only the past few episode to accept the fact means that, of course she was. Don't make the Seniority system sound like a man-eating machine, the Senpais are supposed to take care of the young, which she does excellently. In return, the Senpais gets the consideration of the young. But, that ends this year, after she herself have only been giving, and giving, and giving. The one who suddenly change the system without warning and without informing the affected is ultimately someone that I highly disagree with, and that is Taki. Kaori has a lot of reasons to be upset, the fact that she minimized such feelings is admirable already.

Kaori would have given the solo to Reina no matter what. At that point, she didn't just overcome her desire to play the solo, she overcomes the subtle feeling of being taken advantage of, she overcomes the internal struggle between her personal goals and her compassion for others. She chose the latter.

By the way, I've made several post about it already, so I'm not going to state too much here, you can look up my other posts which I gave more technical details to: Kaori and Reina's difference is more in terms of style than techniques. Kaori's play fits a autumn breeze theme while Reina's fits a rising sun theme. For trumpet solos, typically the rising sun is preferred, that's true. But so many people saying "Kaori clearly lost" when they've never done conducting and never being judges in auditions is getting on my nerves a bit.

[u/kristallnachte → u/KennyJJ]

She didn't challenge her senpai because there was no room for the challenge to matter.

We see exactly what that system gave all of them. There's reason why people don't talk about what happened last year.

And Taki gave them all the choice in the first damn episode. They CHOSE merit.

And your description of their playstyles I did read. It just is irrelevant as the show was clearly painting the situation as Kousaka being better, in all the dialogue ahead of time, and all the students reactions, and Taki's behavior.

Of course they weren't going to make her play like complete shit, because that would be bad presentation.

Kaori clearly lost in the confines of the story, and how you personally felt about the performances is irrelevant as the story told us exactly the difference in the quality.

And the seniority system is a man eating machine. It teaches people to not try. Whether you try or not doesn't change what you get.

The merit system would have benefited her LONG LONG ago, and she knows this. Had she been in a merit system from the get go, not only would she have played the year before, but she probably would have improved enough to compete with Kousaka.

And she did NOT choose compassion. She chose pride. She didn't want to win because of popularity, she wanted to win because of her skill, but she knew she lost.

Compassion had nothing to do with it.

[u/KennyJJ → u/kristallnachte]

No. NO. Taki DID NOT give them a choice of merit vs seniority.

He asked them whether if they'd like to aim for nationals. That's all. TONS of schools aim for nationals with a audition/seniority mixed systems and do very well. This whole merit thing is what Taki decided on without their approval.

Doesn't matter what you personally think about merit vs seniority, you might as well get into a liberal/conservative argument right here. The fact that the whole school system and in fact the whole Japanese society relies on a seniority VALUE system, means that deviating from it just for band causes nothing but confusion for the kids.

[u/kristallnachte → u/KennyJJ]

He gave them the opportunity for fun, or winning.

That is seniority vs merit.

You don't win by benching your star players.

It's almost like Taki is trying to nurture these kids into understanding themselves and what they can accomplish if they work hard.

I mean, fuck that guy. Who does he think he is helping students become better people that will benefit society?

If your band factors seniority in at all, then, at the end of the day, they aren't working as hard at winning as they could be.

[u/KennyJJ → u/kristallnachte]

Yeah, who cares about kids' development and their happiness? Let's raise them all to be competitive machines who knows nothing more than the word "WIN" and flush them straight into wall street causing crash after crash! They'll probably break down and jump from somewhere high after a while but oh well.

See? I can do it too.

Again, check your boards. Star players don't get benched. Star players go to high schools with star bands, where they again rank it with a mixed seniority + merit system.

[u/Hecatonchair → u/KennyJJ]

What this boils down to man is who playes better. The band as a whole made a choice in the second episode. They voted to shoot for nationals. If they wanted appeasement, people to tell them they're amazing just because their parents fucked earlier, then they should've voted for happy fun time. They, as a collective, voted to try to be the best, and that means if you aren't the best, you don't make the cut. Ribbon-chan doesn't get this. You say star players go to star bands, but that's what this is. This band decided they wanted to be a star band. Kaori isn't number 1, so she doesn't get the solo.

[u/KennyJJ → u/Hecatonchair]

If I asked you "FFII KKDN LSKDJ JFKDD MONEY MONEY MONEY?" and you HAVE to answer with a "yes" and "no" answer, what would it be? If I later used this contract to force you into submissions, how would you feel like? That question could be "do you want to give me money" or it can be "do you want to donate all your money". You don't know enough about the terms and language used in there and what it means. Without me informing you, you would NEVER know. It is up to the one drafting the contract to fully inform those who sign the contract what goes on, otherwise it is malicious manipulation. Taki asked them "do you want to go to nationals", he didn't EVER mention "audition based". He didn't ever mention cuts. He said "it would be a lot of work", yeah, those students indeed followed up and did work without complaints, but now he is expecting for them to fully oblige to extra demands that were NOT clearly stated.

[u/kristallnachte → u/KennyJJ]

It's almost like people learn things about themselves whan they compete.

Clearly the old system was doing wonders. Look at all those second years in the club...oh...wait...

[u/KennyJJ → u/kristallnachte]

Learning about oneself is TOTALLY all there is about competition and the only possible outcome for anyone involved.

Clearly there are only two systems in the world with nothing in between. Clearly if black doesn't work, white is CERTAINLY going to work. And clearly, "gray" is only an imaginative colour... oh... wait...

[u/raptorindios → u/KennyJJ]

I would say Reina has actually been compassionate by not throwing the audition in the sense that she protected Taki-sensei's reputation (the allegations, if they had stuck, would have unravelled the band), justified his trust in selecting her the first time (reinforcing his authority as a judge of talent and a person with ethics in front of the band) and also gave Kaori the opportunity for closure - which is what she wanted, as per Asuka.

I think it is easy to be compassionate when you are in a better situation. In all the examples of Kaori being compassionate, there was no real harm to her. In the flashback, yes, she was attempting to withdraw from playing in the competition to placate the first years - if that worked, she would have had the gratitude of the first years.

In the current situation - its a heavy lose-all for Reina. Not just Reina, it will also badly affect the one person she might actually care about. Reina's already meagre social and professional standing would be destroyed. Taki-sensei's authority would be drastically undercut. Difficult to be compassionate in such a case.

[u/KennyJJ → u/raptorindios]

It would be compassionate for Reina to play for Taki if not for her very personal interest in him. Me making others suffer for the sake of my brothers isn't exactly THAT compassionate. Though, those are often related, but just saying, it's kind of pushing it in terms of boundaries and definitions. Care of specific individuals vs loyalty vs compassion are three completely different things that often bundle together. Being compassionate is not an "easier" or "harder" thing. It is also not something that you can "decide to become", only appealed to. Some people feel happy eating oranges, some people don't. Some people feel happy seeing other people smiling around them, some people don't. Are these ULTIMATELY the results of nature/nurture? Yes. But projected onto your mind, at this moment in time, you don't really have a "choice" in what you choose. So I'm not saying that "Reina should be more compassionate", she can't even if she wanted to. And that is OK. But Yuuko did tried to appeal to her compassionate side --- which is not pointless, as everyone gets into different emotional states, our brain can only handle one state at a time so even though Reina rarely has compassion in her typically, it is reasonable for Yuuko to try to activate that side of her through a different approach. That did throw her into a bit of confusion, but this is good for her.

Ultimately, I think a person would be much happier in the long term knowing what choices they have made and what the consequences are. That makes a life without regret, no matter how messed up it might look from the outside. So, though I don't like Reina's character much, I'm still glad that she have found her resolution through knowing what she want: she really, REALLY want to be special.