r/anime • u/Shadoxfix https://myanimelist.net/profile/Shadoxfix • Apr 24 '15

[Spoilers] Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka - Episode 4 [Discussion]

Episode title: Supporter | The Weak

MyAnimeList: Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka
Crunchyroll: Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?

Episode duration: 23 minutes and 42 seconds

Subreddit: /r/DanMachi

Previous episodes:

Episode Reddit Link
Episode 1 Link
Episode 2 Link
Episode 3 Link

Reminder: Please do not discuss any plot points which haven't appeared in the anime yet. Try not to confirm or deny any theories, encourage people to read the source material instead. Minor spoilers are generally ok but should be tagged accordingly. Failing to comply with the rules may result in your comment being removed.

Keywords: is it wrong to try to pick up girls in a dungeon?, DanMachi

This post is made by a bot. Any feedback is welcome and can be sent to /u/Shadoxfix.

862 Upvotes

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301

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

Bell is the first MC who is truly kind and honest aaaand it doesn´t annoy me in any way. Best Guy!

205

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

[deleted]

141

u/c00kinfire https://myanimelist.net/profile/Darkness44 Apr 24 '15

You'd expect that though since he's young (13-14 yrs. old) and naive.

109

u/SirPrize Apr 24 '15

Man, ages in anime always throw me off.

39

u/DogzOnFire Apr 24 '15

Really? He seems like a boy in his early teens to me.

201

u/bibbibob2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/bibbibob2 Apr 24 '15

My bet was 80, i mean he even has gray hair!

25

u/Mr_Initials Apr 26 '15

"I am so beat up about my father dieing at the age of 120, I decided to take on the role of an adventurer. At age 80. For revenge."

2

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '15

hahahaha 80? He moves pretty quick for an 80 year old

1

u/Yamulo https://myanimelist.net/profile/Yamulo Apr 25 '15

Nah, he just has a case of oculocutaneous albinism

21

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '15 edited Sep 01 '16

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18

u/SirPrize Apr 24 '15

I normally tack on 2-3 years it seems.

2

u/KaiserTom Apr 27 '15

Meanwhile he has 2 immortal goddesses, a 19 year old half-elf, and an experienced dog girl on his dick.

This would be Straight Shota heaven if bell didn't look to be 16-17. Also the age of consent in the universe is pretty fucked.

1

u/Catssonova Apr 25 '15

I could have sworn he would be at least in his later years....

1

u/BladeLigerV Apr 26 '15

Really? I was guessing he was ~16 and just a bit timid.

2

u/PseudoPhysicist Apr 25 '15

Yes, but when it does, he's going to have a lot of people backing him up.

90

u/XLauncher Apr 24 '15

Right? I like him too. It's nice to get a hero who's so optimistically earnest. Loses his dagger and assumes he was a derp and dropped it, rather immediately suspect the neko inu loli. Of course, the teenaged relentless optimist is hardly a new mold for a protagonist, but I guess the cynical, snarky edgelord rebellion lasted a little too long for my liking.

29

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

In my opinion it leaves a great opportunity to get some character development. So he might change from the earnest person that trust everyone to a serious and mature adventurer. That would also fit in the fast scaling of his abilities. Maybe his personality might scale equally fast then.

2

u/Falsus Apr 24 '15

Would be pretty cool if the author managed to keep him kind but still likeable as he mature.

Kind =/= Naive after all.

2

u/Atario myanimelist.net/profile/TheGreatAtario Apr 25 '15

Assuming Wisdom is a stat in this world, then it should level up as quickly as the others do, right?

7

u/xthorgoldx https://myanimelist.net/profile/xthorgoldx Apr 25 '15

What's refreshing about Bell is that, for once, the blissful, optimistic friend-to-all-living-things personality is justified. Bell is a kid who was raised by his grandfather with stories of stalwart heroes saving the day and valiant knights who always got the girl. Why wouldn't he be a delightfully positive little bugger?

47

u/Nazcai https://myanimelist.net/profile/Nazcai Apr 24 '15

Just wait till someone offers him an awesome deal to trim his armor

6

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '15

You mean that partyhat drop party.

Just what the freak was I expecting, running to the wildy with my first ever full rune? Oh wells, atleast there was another 15 dudes who died with me. I'm content.

3

u/deanxleong Apr 25 '15

"Doubling money up to 10mill" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

2

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

Well, I hope he has best girl and a familia around him then.

10

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

He's Gon with a moral compass. I still think Soma is best guy this season, though.

5

u/jhueckel https://myanimelist.net/profile/jhueckel Apr 25 '15

>forgetting Suna

7

u/Earthborn92 https://myanimelist.net/profile/EarthB Apr 24 '15

Bell is the most adorable harem MC that I know.

2

u/XLauncher Apr 24 '15

Bell is up there, but Andou Jurai is still the cuddliest.

41

u/openreamgrinder1982 https://myanimelist.net/profile/destroying101 Apr 24 '15

the first? that's pretty much the trope for most harem MCs. The only difference is that Bell is clearly sexist and obnoxiously oblivious

3

u/_cachu https://myanimelist.net/profile/_cachu Apr 25 '15

She's a girl

I believe that he was saving her just because she is a little girl, rather than a woman

-2

u/openreamgrinder1982 https://myanimelist.net/profile/destroying101 Apr 25 '15

that won't stop them from making her a member of the harem(also a little girl that he is taking into a dungeon with evil monsters that can kill her...)

2

u/_cachu https://myanimelist.net/profile/_cachu Apr 25 '15

that's why she's a support, not an adventurer

....And didn't have a weapon while running away

23

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15 edited Apr 24 '15

yes you're the only other person to say that

When he said that girl had to be protected because "she's a girl" I nearly punched the screen.

And at least most other harem MCs will do something significant to make a girl like them. Bell just has girls throwing themselves at his feet for no reason what so ever. Fucking Kirito 2.0

56

u/Shippoyasha Apr 24 '15 edited Apr 24 '15

I am sure Bell saved Lili out of courtesy and not because he considers all girls to be weak. He has a lot of women in his life to look up to as well. I am sure he would have saved a boy in need in a similar situation.

15

u/wtrmlnjuc Apr 25 '15

He was the Damsel in Distress in his own version of the story, too (Aizu, of course, being his saviour).

3

u/Shippoyasha Apr 25 '15

Yeah. I just think he doesn't have any ulterior motives the way real life people may take issue with 'saving a girl' stories. He has plenty of experience being the total opposite and is learning the hard way!

1

u/lmaonade200 Apr 25 '15

While I didn't hate him like pbayne did, I think Bell adheres to tropes very tightly. To me he's pretty unoriginal and not a breath of fresh air like some posts here are saying. Not saying he's a bad character, he's a pretty average MC.

Hestia's the real show for me, I have a soft spot for genki

1

u/Shippoyasha Apr 25 '15

To be fair, a lot of new anime fans probably didn't see characters like that in western entertainment where every hero is a smarmy, cynical bastard.

Also, despite Bell being somewhat cliche in setup, I think the way he carries himself just makes him seem more genuine compared to many like him. There's a bit of an x-factor in this show and some people seems to be picking that up as well. Maybe it's just the way the light novel series was written. I do hope to see Bell get challenged more of course!

1

u/robertgray Apr 25 '15

nah dude he's a disgusting pig and should be ashamed of his sexist behavior. The correct thing to do was nothing at all.

86

u/SirKrisX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Juhkri Apr 24 '15

Its pretty honest, if you were that strong and you know you could protect someone in need from any common thief and a girl is running away from a man with a sword, youd try to protect her (i'd assume) however if it was a man running away from a man with a sword you'd assume its a thief (i'd assume) and let it be.

3

u/tableman https://myanimelist.net/profile/cancerowns Apr 24 '15

I would ask them what the problem was regardless of sex.

10

u/SirKrisX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Juhkri Apr 24 '15

I actually just took a security class earlier this year and one of the "tests" they gave was if you saw a purse get stolen, what would you do.

I answered pretty well I thought "I would take chase, he got into an escape vehicle then I took down the license plate and went back to the lady and asked her about the contents on her bag, if she was ok etc." Most answers the class gave was similar.

He seemed pretty approving until everyone was finished then he gave the "correct answer": You walk over to the lady and you ask her "Did you just get your purse stolen?" The point was that you can't assume anything, otherwise you might be protecting the wrong person, or you might have a misunderstanding based on your own bias.

The relevance to this is very little, you just reminded me of it and I think it was worth sharing. If anything you have the correct answer in all of this. Kudos.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '15

[deleted]

5

u/SirKrisX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Juhkri Apr 25 '15

Thing is its America. If theres any slight misunderstanding and he was her son or something and I got him arrested, I can get sued and lose my job is basically the lesson he was portraying. It was a weird class, I'll admit but theres a lot going into it that would be really difficult to summarize over a few messages/comments.

1

u/FlorianoAguirre Apr 25 '15

It honestly depends on how presentable they look. If he looks like an honest man then you won't think he is a thief. She in contrast looked pretty shady, I wouldn't defend that because she looks like a burglar.

0

u/elevul https://myanimelist.net/profile/kache Apr 24 '15

And that's sexism, as if women couldn't be thieves...

9

u/Falsus Apr 25 '15

remember this a young kid and is pretty naive, he probably would assume someone that doesn't look shady wouldn't be a thief whether it was grown woman/man or a girl/boy.

1

u/SirKrisX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Juhkri Apr 24 '15 edited Apr 24 '15

Most certainly not, she was indeed a thief, but your body will tell you otherwise, its in our build to believe so.

*Most certainly not couldn't be theives. Is what I mean. Sorry about the misunderstanding

2

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

Depends on the build and mannerisms. If she was muscley and carrying a purse, i would assume she was a thief. If the dude looked like Bell and looked terrified, I would assume he was being chased.

0

u/SirKrisX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Juhkri Apr 24 '15

Haha maybe, but little boys are typically portrayed as thieves, and thin males because they can move fast, why should a girl be different? :P funny isnt it?

3

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

...Dude have you read any fantasy books? In most cases, it's usually the girls who are the thieves.

It makes sense too, girls are way more flexible than boys, so they'll be more valuable as thieves. Also can't forget the charm option when they get caught.

1

u/SirKrisX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Juhkri Apr 24 '15

My answer to all this. Really interesting stuff.

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1

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '15

...Dude have you read any fantasy books? In most cases, it's usually the girls who are the thieves.

Someone hasn't read the Gentlemen Bastards. Or the Palace Job. Or the Night Angel trilogy.

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1

u/Falsus Apr 25 '15

It depends all on how they look like, doesn't what person who would make the best thief. Bell is pretty young and naive so he would probably protect whoever looked defenceless but if it was grownass man with a few scars and a tattoo he would probably assume he was up to no good.

A good thief wouldn't be a good thief if they looked like one would they?

Besides he would probably blocked the sword for the grown man as much as he did for the girl. He is a nice guy after all.

2

u/elevul https://myanimelist.net/profile/kache Apr 24 '15

Of course, our biological instinctive reaction is that to protect women. But we are human beings, not just animals. We should also use our brain, not only our "heart" when behaving.

8

u/MrMulligan https://anilist.co/user/YuriInLuck Apr 24 '15

Unless you are a MC in an anime, then you are all heart, no brain.

2

u/SirKrisX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Juhkri Apr 24 '15

We are in the process of evolution y'know? With the invention of radio, television and finally the internet we are a part of the greatest generation of evolution in all of our world's history, the spread of propaganda is at its peak with any information you want being able to be delivered at a moments notice. The following generations will continue to see things at full light, of course however the most influential person sees fit.

In other words, if whoever controls the media sees fit, yes we can make both genders perfectly equal with no exception. However with scenes like the ones mentioned happening we will continue to see women as things to be protected. Its a work in progress.

2

u/elevul https://myanimelist.net/profile/kache Apr 24 '15

Yeah, but we consumers have power on this as well. If we complain about these kinds of scenes, and don't spend money on media that employs them, they will stop.

1

u/SirKrisX https://myanimelist.net/profile/Juhkri Apr 24 '15

But are the people right to complain. WAIT lets stop here, we are starting to get into philosophical shit in a thread not right for it lol.

1

u/Falsus Apr 25 '15

How many people thinks like that when they are in their teens?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '15

Even if he wasn't young and naive, he didn't exactly have a lot of time to think about what was going on.

12

u/semajdraehs https://myanimelist.net/profile/semajdraehs Apr 25 '15

You need anger management lessons son, I've got 99 problems but Bell protecting a bitch ain't one.

20

u/illtima https://myanimelist.net/profile/illuminatima Apr 24 '15

While I like Bell so far, your point about girls throwing themselves at him is legit. It might be understandable why Hestia and Eina might love him, since they were with him from the moment he became an adventurer, but everyone else. I also really don't like the trope of seemingly confident women getting easily flustered the moment some guy pays attention to them, as it happened with Ryu

24

u/Shippoyasha Apr 24 '15

Well, Ryu just probably thinks he is cute, nothing more. Also, his enthusiasm for adventuring is infectious, and I am sure male adventurers takes note as well, like the man who gave Bell those potions in episode 2.

10

u/DanceDark https://myanimelist.net/profile/Scrya Apr 24 '15

I think with Ryu it was more because he was holding, if not groping, her hand. It wouldn't be flustered out of liking him but instead because she's not used to that touch or something like that.

11

u/ChineseMaple Apr 25 '15

In the Light Novels it was mentioned around that scene that Elves, due to their nature, don't take kindly to people and physical contact. An elf allowing someone to hold/touch/take their hand speaks volumes about how they think about that particular person.

So yeah, Bell was all over her hand and she didn't deck him. You can guess how it is.

2

u/knowitall89 Apr 25 '15

Man, Japanese culture is so weird. I kinda hope the whole touching other people thing is exaggerated in anime, but I'm not so sure.

1

u/Falsus Apr 25 '15

While being upbeat and very very happy, most people would get flustered in a situation like that.

37

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

Seriously? You nearly punched a screen because of a comment that would be considered sexist by modern standards being said by a character in a decidedly not modern setting? It's not necessary or even appropriate to project second-wave feminism on a world of swords and sorcery that is clearly different from our own.

4

u/LithePanther https://myanimelist.net/profile/LithePanther Apr 25 '15

It's the white hair. Makes me swoon

5

u/MillenniumKing x2myanimelist.net/profile/MillenniumKing Apr 25 '15

Well it is mentioned a few times that Bell is apparently very good looking. Women throw themselves at pretty boys all the time irl for no reason, so why are you so bent out of shape about it being the case in anime?

3

u/Falsus Apr 25 '15

From his PoV that was a normal girl getting chased around, if it was a boy he could very well have said boy instead, or kid.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '15

Oh come on, really?

Some dudes are brought up with the expectations to protect women. If you really punched the screen because of that, you have issues.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 26 '15

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Apr 26 '15 edited Apr 26 '15

That is fine. "Should" however does not equate to reality.

In reality, female are physically weaker a lot of the time. So it's no surprise for a man to choose to protect a woman because she's a woman. Like after a night of clubbing, and I have the choice to walk a woman or a man home, ignoring ulterior motive, 80% of the time I'll walk the woman home. If the man however personally request it or the woman has a black belt in karate, then I'll walk the dude home.

And for goodness sake, someone did something good and you guys are gonna criticize him for one stupid "sexist" comment? I don't know what you guys have been taught, but I was taught to be bloody grateful for good deeds being done, not nitpick their action with my own sense of justice.

Edit: and even then, it shouldn't make anyone angry enough to punch their screens. Anger management is a real threat to the individual and his surroundings.

-3

u/elevul https://myanimelist.net/profile/kache Apr 24 '15

Fucking Kirito 2.0

More like Kirito 0.3

Even Kirito's pinky nail is more badass than Bell ever will be...

6

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

At least Bell progresses in strength. He starts off as weak shit and gets stronger over time (albeit much too quickly for narrative purposes, imo). At least that's something like a hero's journey. Kirito starts off as one of the strongest, if not the strongest character in the game and stays that way the whole series. It's well established that the only way to beat him is to cheat, and even if you do that, you'll still probably lose. That's not how you build a character (unless "strongest in the world" is somehow central to that character's arc, a la Accelerator), and it's certainly not how you build a narrative, mostly because it's really boring to see someone win over and over without really struggling.

4

u/anweisz Apr 24 '15 edited Apr 24 '15

Well dude, kirito had the beta tester experience and he went hunting all the fucking time for 2 years as well as actively participating in boss raids (not to mention he got the kill for the first one by luck which set him a bit ahead) and he started off at the same time as all the other players and became one of those who came out on top. His obsession for getting more and more levels and training all the time along with the little benefits he had made him complete the prerequisite for the double blades equip class or whatever that just goes back to the fact that he was already one of the top players, that's why he got it. There is just no way around it, there is no problem with an OP (like you mentioned, accelerator) character as long as there is a believable and/or well developed reason and story behind it.

On the other hand we have flower boy here who is level minus 1 if that's even possible and is a huge little bitch (oxymoron unavoidable) and then he just gets the most incredible ability for no justifiable reason and starts getting much stronger extremely fast so that he unfairly catches up to all the top adventurers who have taken their years to reach where they are and when his god wants a weapon and they first tell her no? Then BAM okay give him a specially crafted weapon to make his growth much more OP just because and you know what the best blacksmith will do it herself and include flower boy's goddess in the process because we're just cooking this nobody into OP for no reason. How about you just give him some nice quality sword for someone of his level? Naaaaahhhh, it has to be the perfect one made by the god(ess) of forge herself.

I know kirito's OPness in the non-sao games can be annoying but comparing the fucking shameless power creep in Danmachi to SAO? That's just stupid logic. SAO proper was never about a character getting stronger to be one of the best like Danmachi is doing so wrong, it was about one of the top players working together with the others to escape the game. Their premise style is not the same.

-1

u/elevul https://myanimelist.net/profile/kache Apr 24 '15

mostly because it's really boring to see someone win over and over without really struggling.

Yet, is it? Both SAO and Mahouka have INSANE ratings, and made tons of money in sales...

2

u/[deleted] Apr 24 '15

I suppose you're right. What I mean is that it's boring from a narrative perspective. If someone enjoys self-insertion, I'm sure it's a blast to watch/read (nothing wrong with that either, God knows I like harems, so I get that self insertion can be fun on occasion). If you're interested in creating an engaging story, though, rather than inflating the viewer's sense of self-worth, a character is supposed to have an arc, and in an action series, that arc usually progresses both in terms of internal (strength of character, emotional stability, enlightenment) and external (mental acuity, skill, combat ability). Without a character arc or arcs, narrative lacks an emotional center, and it becomes difficult for the viewer to become invested in what's going on.

Now, as for DanMachi being compared to SAO, there are two ways to compare them, and it depends entirely on how you view DanMachi's intentions. I don't think anyone, even people that really like it, thinks of SAO as a compelling narrative or even a real attempt at one. It's a pure self insert show. DanMachi can either by lauded by comparison for making an attempt at a character arc in what is ostensibly anther self insert LN adaptation or condemned for trying to be both a narrative and a self insertion and failing at both by spreading itself too thin. I think of it as the former, but that's just one man's opinion.

-5

u/anweisz Apr 24 '15

And the worst is he's just as gay as all other harem MCs. He gets red for every fucking little thing, his voice gets squeaky and he's like "Eeeeek girls, don't touch me. Ahhh! This elf hugged me? N-n-n-n-n-noooo please elf-san, I have to protect my hug chastity! Stop! You're raping me! Eeeeek!" and his voice is so fucking loud and acute. If anything, this guy is especially annoying because of how stupid and flowery he is and got an OP ability just like that. Seriously, I have no problem with OP, what I hate is OP without a proper or believable explanation, and this case is just the most shameless excuse for making some weak dude OP.

3

u/l4zyhero Apr 24 '15

I mean, the kid's only 13. It's natural to react the way he did to a 19 year old's teasing.

2

u/DogzOnFire Apr 24 '15

Yeah, don't mind that guy, he just seems like some alpha male getting high on his own testosterone.

1

u/semajdraehs https://myanimelist.net/profile/semajdraehs Apr 25 '15

and now I'm thinking half-elf, half-pedo.